Using Midi Switches as a "Stand In Switch" / Incorporating Midi Switches into Layouts

New user here with a question about what is possible/how to achieve this in the FM3:

I've got an FM3 and I recently purchased an EV-1 to go along with it. I also have an IK Multimedia midi controller that I used to use with Amplitube, the "iRig Stomp I/O", which has four switches and an expression pedal built into it. I've read through the manuals and figured out how to connect it via midi cable, and set the assignments for the switches to operate as external controllers, but when I was reading through the manual, I recall reading about "stand-in switches" where external switches can operate like on-board ones & have set global functions. What I would ideally like is to have that board parallel to my FM3, and be able to incorporate those additional four switches into the main layouts (presets, scenes, effects, etc.) so I could do things like have my scenes layout have 7 available press functions available to me by default when I have my midi controller connected to it. Currently, I've only been able to figure out how to assign controls in individual presets/blocks to those switches.

Is this something that can be achieved with this setup, or am I misperceiving what "stand-in switches" are? If I am correct, where in setup do I go with a midi controller connected to make the switches operate as "stand in switches?" Appreciate any insight anyone has to offer, thanks!
 
Stand In switches only apply to hardware external switches connected to either the FM3 or an FC-6 or FC-12. MIDI controller based functions can only be assigned via the MIDI/Remote menu.
 
Stand In switches only apply to hardware external switches connected to either the FM3 or an FC-6 or FC-12. MIDI controller based functions can only be assigned via the MIDI/Remote menu.
So, only switches on devices that connect via the 1/4" pedal input jack, but not switches on devices that connect via a midi cable?
 
Appreciate the clarification! Admittedly a lot of the terminology in the manual was a bit overwhelming because I haven't had tons of experience working with similar equipment in the past that uses the same language.

So, external midi controllers with the FM3 are basically limited to per-preset commands / switching individual controls on blocks on/off?
 
Appreciate the clarification! Admittedly a lot of the terminology in the manual was a bit overwhelming because I haven't had tons of experience working with similar equipment in the past that uses the same language.

So, external midi controllers with the FM3 are basically limited to per-preset commands / switching individual controls on blocks on/off?
See the manual section on the Midi/Remote portion of the global menus.

There are quite a full list of midi controllable capabilities.
 
See the manual section on the Midi/Remote portion of the global menus.

There are quite a full list of midi controllable capabilities.
Hey, got a question for you if you don't mind, been browsing old threads on midi controllers / capability & I notice that you've responded to a lot of them with pretty definitive knowledge.

I spent a few hours today going through the various manuals & tinkering around with the menus to see what I could/could not get to work with the existing midi controller that I have (which has four physical switches and an expression pedal.)

What I was trying to find out is there was any way I could program my existing controller so that the four switches always = Scenes 4/5/6/7.

At first I was trying to accomplish this through the "mapping" menu, though it seemed that that wasn't quite what I was looking for anyway.

Eventually, on the "other" page of MIDI/REMOTE, I found I was able to set my switches to the Scene Increment & Scene Decrement. When I set a switch to "Scene Select," it would switch between Scenes 1 and 8 when I pressed it. In looking at the manual for this particular controller, I found that when operating as a midi controller, the switches are set to either send a signal of 0 or 127, depending whether the switch is on/off, which correlates to the CC numbers in the manual for scenes 1/8. I noticed in other threads (seemingly from prior to the FC releases, when people were looking for scene select options for the AX3 playing live,) I saw people mentioning midi controllers where the midi value can be set. I'm new to midi devices, so I'm learning this all for the first time, but it appears as if there are some midi controllers that are fully programmable, and others that are fixed, like mine, where midi value cannot be changed.

Even assuming that I had a midi controller that had that capability, I notice in the "other" menu, that you can only set a single switch for the "Scene Select" function. How would one then program other switches to switch scenes so that all scenes were available with one press? How did AX3 users make this work prior to the FCs being released?

If it is possible to do this, do you (or anyone who may be reading) have any suggestions for cheaper midi controllers I could purchase to achieve this? Would love to get an FC-6, but I just really don't want to spend $600 at the moment. Thanks for any advice you might have on the matter!
 
Hey, got a question for you if you don't mind, been browsing old threads on midi controllers / capability & I notice that you've responded to a lot of them with pretty definitive knowledge.

I spent a few hours today going through the various manuals & tinkering around with the menus to see what I could/could not get to work with the existing midi controller that I have (which has four physical switches and an expression pedal.)

What I was trying to find out is there was any way I could program my existing controller so that the four switches always = Scenes 4/5/6/7.

At first I was trying to accomplish this through the "mapping" menu, though it seemed that that wasn't quite what I was looking for anyway.

Eventually, on the "other" page of MIDI/REMOTE, I found I was able to set my switches to the Scene Increment & Scene Decrement. When I set a switch to "Scene Select," it would switch between Scenes 1 and 8 when I pressed it. In looking at the manual for this particular controller, I found that when operating as a midi controller, the switches are set to either send a signal of 0 or 127, depending whether the switch is on/off, which correlates to the CC numbers in the manual for scenes 1/8. I noticed in other threads (seemingly from prior to the FC releases, when people were looking for scene select options for the AX3 playing live,) I saw people mentioning midi controllers where the midi value can be set. I'm new to midi devices, so I'm learning this all for the first time, but it appears as if there are some midi controllers that are fully programmable, and others that are fixed, like mine, where midi value cannot be changed.

Even assuming that I had a midi controller that had that capability, I notice in the "other" menu, that you can only set a single switch for the "Scene Select" function. How would one then program other switches to switch scenes so that all scenes were available with one press? How did AX3 users make this work prior to the FCs being released?

If it is possible to do this, do you (or anyone who may be reading) have any suggestions for cheaper midi controllers I could purchase to achieve this? Would love to get an FC-6, but I just really don't want to spend $600 at the moment. Thanks for any advice you might have on the matter!
Scene Select and Channel Select rely on 2 things: CC# and CC data value.

Some older or "simpler" midi controllers only send a data value of 0 and 127 for off and on.

For scene select, the data value is modulo 8.

So for scene 1, you would use a value of 0, or any other value that when divided by 8 has a remainder of 0.

In simplest terms:

Scene 1 == value 0
Scene 2 == value 1
Scene 3 == value 2
...
Scene 8 == value 7

But 7 % 128 == 7 (128 is the total of 0-127).

That's why using Scene Select with 0 and 127 selects scene 1 and scene 8.

So to set switches to select a specific scene you need to send both the Scene Select CC# and the relative data value for that scene.

The Morningstar MC6 is one less expensive option that can do a lot. There are also a number of options from Voes.

There are others...
 
Scene Select and Channel Select rely on 2 things: CC# and CC data value.

Some older or "simpler" midi controllers only send a data value of 0 and 127 for off and on.

For scene select, the data value is modulo 8.

So for scene 1, you would use a value of 0, or any other value that when divided by 8 has a remainder of 0.

In simplest terms:

Scene 1 == value 0
Scene 2 == value 1
Scene 3 == value 2
...
Scene 8 == value 7

But 7 % 128 == 7 (128 is the total of 0-127).

That's why using Scene Select with 0 and 127 selects scene 1 and scene 8.

So to set switches to select a specific scene you need to send both the Scene Select CC# and the relative data value for that scene.

The Morningstar MC6 is one less expensive option that can do a lot. There are also a number of options from Voes.

There are others...

So, yes, on my current device, both the CC# and the CC data values for them are fixed - the four switches are CC# 20, 21, 22, 23 when pressed / when the FM3 "learns" them after pressing, and the values they send out are fixed at 0 and 127. The best I can do with my current device is just go up/down through scenes, which I understand.

Let's assume I had a Morningstar MC6 or MC8. How would I - in the setup menu of the FM3 - actually program it per switch? I ask because as it appears to me right now, in the "Scene Select" in the Other page of MIDI/Remote, all you can do is either Learn or manually set a single CC#. So, would it be like...on the Morningstar, could you set all 6 switches to have the same CC# and then give them different CC data values? So, theoretically, they are all set to CC#1, but they each have CC data values 3/4/5/6/7 for Scenes 4/5/6/7/8? The thing that is not clear to me is how Scene Select is distributed across multiple buttons with different functions.
 
So, yes, on my current device, both the CC# and the CC data values for them are fixed - the four switches are CC# 20, 21, 22, 23 when pressed / when the FM3 "learns" them after pressing, and the values they send out are fixed at 0 and 127. The best I can do with my current device is just go up/down through scenes, which I understand.

Let's assume I had a Morningstar MC6 or MC8. How would I - in the setup menu of the FM3 - actually program it per switch? I ask because as it appears to me right now, in the "Scene Select" in the Other page of MIDI/Remote, all you can do is either Learn or manually set a single CC#. So, would it be like...on the Morningstar, could you set all 6 switches to have the same CC# and then give them different CC data values? So, theoretically, they are all set to CC#1, but they each have CC data values 3/4/5/6/7 for Scenes 4/5/6/7/8? The thing that is not clear to me is how Scene Select is distributed across multiple buttons with different functions.
Yes, you've got it right.

All the switches will use the same CC# but each will send a different data value.
 
So, only switches on devices that connect via the 1/4" pedal input jack, but not switches on devices that connect via a midi cable?

Sorry to jump in - as the MC8 has 1/4 outs, does that mean it can send stand-in switch data?

I set up the MC8 once for a few presets and scenes but I know there’s a ton more it can do. Basement use means I havent had to explore much yet.
 
Sorry to jump in - as the MC8 has 1/4 outs, does that mean it can send stand-in switch data?

I set up the MC8 once for a few presets and scenes but I know there’s a ton more it can do. Basement use means I havent had to explore much yet.
If those jacks are actually outputs and are in some way "linked" to onboard momentary switches as switch jacks, then that's possible.

However, checking the product page for the MC8 it says:

Each Omniports can function as an expression pedal input, aux switch input or MIDI output so you have maximum flexibility to suit your needs.

So I don't think that's possible because that's not listed as a capability of the jacks.

Also, just a note: there's no "data" per-se, it's literally just switch to open (or close) the circuit.
 
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