Using IEM - Two Outputs

sidsin

sidsin

Inspired
Hello people!

This is the preset that I use for my gigs. Usually I disable the cab modelling and connect an ENGL 2X12. Mic the cab and use in ears with the same feed.

I was wondering if there is a way to use this set up for FOH and IEM but also connect the ENGL (and keep the cab modelling switched off) through a different output? I would like to keep the cab on the stage because I lot of people who stand too close to the stage at the show have complained that they cant hear my guitars (if I go FOH direct and do not use a cab). Plus I also like to feel the cab on the stage.

Thank you in advance!


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Easy. Just put the cab block last. Keep global cab modeling on. Make sure your cab is stereo if your FX are.
Tap off your FX before the cab to another output and send that to your power amp and ENGL.

You'll need to do a little housekeeping to shuffle everything left and move the cab to the end, but this is an easy, popular, and kick ass setup.
 
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Cooper Carter said:
Easy. Just put the cab block last. Keep global cab modeling on. Make sure you cab is stereo if your FX are.
Tap off your FX before the cab to another output and send that to your power amp and ENGL.

You'll need to do a little housekeeping to shuffle everything left and move the cab to the end, but this is an easy, popular, and kick ass setup.
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Thanks, Cooper! I was trying to do that initially. But for some reason, if I move the FX blocks towards the left and move the cab to the end of the chain - I get a completely different tone - not one that I am fan of at all!

Would I need to change some setting within the FX blocks as well?
 
sidsin said:
Would I need to change some setting within the FX blocks as well?
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The tone usually shouldn't be completely different, but it's tough to say without seeing your preset, or at least hearing a recording of each routing.

Were you using the multiband compressor? That would probably need threshold adjustments to have (approximately) the same effect on the signal with the new routing.
 
sidsin said:
[…]But for some reason, if I move the FX blocks towards the left and move the cab to the end of the chain - I get a completely different tone - not one that I am fan of at all!
Click to expand...

The Cab block is mostly linear and commutative, meaning it can be moved around after the amp and it will still have the same effect on the sound.

What could be happening is that you have stereo effects that end up being collapsed to monaural in the Cab block. You have a possibility of phase issues then which cause frequencies to cancel. See p. 6 in the manual and p. 19 in the Blocks Guide for more information. Switching the Cab block's Input Mode to Stereo should help if it's currently one of the monaural modes.

See "Position of the Cab block on the grid" in the Wiki for more information.
 
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Yeah make sure you set the Cab block to stereo input mode and hard pan your cabs accordingly to maintain stereo separation of your delays and reverbs and such.
 
Another question since I have some the attention of some legends here.

Can I use both Left and Right output of my FX III into the inputs of my Matrix (switch the matrix to stereo)? And then use two speaker cables to connect the ENGL 2X12 and make that into stereo as well?

Or just running mono is a better option?
 
sidsin said:
Another question since I have some the attention of some legends here.

Can I use both Left and Right output of my FX III into the inputs of my Matrix (switch the matrix to stereo)? And then use two speaker cables to connect the ENGL 2X12 and make that into stereo as well?

Or just running mono is a better option?
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The cab has to be wired for stereo specifically.

Do not run 2 speaker cables into the same cab that isn’t stereo.
 
chris said:
The cab has to be wired for stereo specifically.

Do not run 2 speaker cables into the same cab that isn’t stereo.
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Appreciate the response. There is a steep switch at the back of the ENGL, so I can use that right?

Is there any value in connecting the two outputs from the FX III to the two inputs of the Matrix (keeping the switch to Stereo)..but connecting just one speaker cable and keeping the output to Mono?
 
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sidsin said:
Appreciate the response. There is a steep switch at the back of the ENGL, so I can use that right?

Is there any value in connecting the two outputs from the FX III to the two inputs of the Matrix (keeping the switch to Stereo)..but connecting just one speaker cable and keeping the output to Mono?
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No.
Get another cab if you want stereo.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
The Cab block is mostly linear and commutative, meaning it can be moved around after the amp and it will still have the same effect on the sound.
Click to expand...

The cab block itself absolutely doesn't care. Neither do the delays and reverbs in the screenshot.

The multiband comp in the preset does care what it's fed. It shouldn't be wildly different unless the cab block includes significant hi/low-pass filtering, but it will be different.

If that specific thing sounds too different, you can use a PEQ block to put just the filtering before the m-comp and then take it out of the cab block....that'll be closer though still not identical.

Whether any of that is going to be audible or significant....I don't think it's likely.
 
marsonic said:
Whether any of that is going to be audible or significant....I don't think it's likely.
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If the stereo signal gets folded into mono in the cab block it can be audible and significant. It’s just the nature of the beast, and being aware of it allows us to work around the problem. The quotes in the Wiki go into it nicely.

Anyone running a mono rig is used to the same problem, whether they’re going into a single FRFR or a regular guitar cabinet. Running stereo FRFRs or dual amps and cabs shows the difference quickly, it’s like going from a color TV back to black and white.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
If the stereo signal gets folded into mono in the cab block it can be audible and significant. It’s just the nature of the beast, and being aware of it allows us to work around the problem. The quotes in the Wiki go into it nicely.

Anyone running a mono rig is used to the same problem, whether they’re going into a single FRFR or a regular guitar cabinet. Running stereo FRFRs or dual amps and cabs shows the difference quickly, it’s like going from a color TV back to black and white.
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No, I meant what I said about the multiband comp changing its response if you move significant filtering from before it to after it.

What you said is going to be audible.
 
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