Using Compression for metal (Bulb style)

Who cares if Bulb uses compression or not. Copying other people's preferences is stupid. Especially when you don't even know what a compressor is. He likes to have it there but you might like your tone without it.

Compressors reduce volume when you pick harder. If you don't know how to use a compressor you'll end up with no dynamics which is exactly why people buy the Axe-Fx so they get tube amp dynamics. Don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to bash you. I just get this kind of stuff a lot like: "i heard the 808 rocks and the keeley compressor is amazing and an EQ pedal is a must" Then people use all of them without really understanding what they use it for. A compressor has many purposes. An 808 has many purposes. If you don't know what they are you shouldn't be using them. I actually know the purposes and I still choose not to use them.

If you want a tight low end I'd never suggest using the high-pass filter trick. It just doesn't work. It actually cuts the low end when it's needed. If you've got a boomy low end then you need to lower the bass knob in the amp. Compression works great on high gain guitars when it's limiting the low end and that's why I advice you to use the Multiband Compressor for the low end. Now... I know it's not included in the standard but I also own the standard and you can do something very similar with the filter block.
 
^ I agree it's always a good idea to learn the hows and whys instead of just copying,
but in this case I'm pretty sure bulb wants his main rhythm sound to have no dynamics, so that it's very even, plus a super tight gate that enables staccato palm mute chords and riffs.
 
Clark Kent said:
Who cares if Bulb uses compression or not.
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Considering that the OP said "I'm trying to make a bulb-type patch," I think it matters to him. I think examining another guitarists choice of gear, tool, settings, etc. can help you better understand how things work. I agree that copying someone's signal chain just for the sake of copying is stupid though.
 
I guess what I was trying to say is that compression is not a tone thing. It's more of a feel thing. If you want Bulb's tone then compression does NOTHING to tone. It only affects dynamics. Sure a compressor in front of an amp doesn't let the amp distort too much etc. Still if you don't understand what a compressor does then you shouldn't use it.

If you want a compressed djent tone then how about my Ickology tone? I shared it back then: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=19143&p=173903&hilit=clark+kent+patch#p173903
 
Clark Kent said:
I guess what I was trying to say is that compression is not a tone thing. It's more of a feel thing. If you want Bulb's tone then compression does NOTHING to tone. It only affects dynamics. Sure a compressor in front of an amp doesn't let the amp distort too much etc. Still if you don't understand what a compressor does then you shouldn't use it.

If you want a compressed djent tone then how about my Ickology tone? I shared it back then: http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewt ... ch#p173903
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That's true. Using a compressor before a high gain amp does change the feel, not so much the tone (if by tone we are talking EQ). I guess if you are using a multiband comressor then it actually could affect tone though, because as the signal gets louder only certain frequencies are compressed giving a different EQ with the different volumes.

I usually just use a para-EQ before the amp block to fine tune the tightness of an amp, but I'm going to have to try experimenting with some multiband EQ to compress only the muddy bass when the signal gets louder.
 
DawnOfIniquity said:
I usually just use a para-EQ before the amp block to fine tune the tightness of an amp, but I'm going to have to try experimenting with some multiband EQ to compress only the muddy bass when the signal gets louder.
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How is multiband EQ going to compress mud - and why would you want to do that?

Clark Kent said:
A compressor has many purposes. An 808 has many purposes. If you don't know what they are you shouldn't be using them. I actually know the purposes and I still choose not to use them.
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Please elaborate. I am interested in hearing your views on the purposes of compression and why you choose not to use it.
 
widrace said:
DawnOfIniquity said:
I usually just use a para-EQ before the amp block to fine tune the tightness of an amp, but I'm going to have to try experimenting with some multiband EQ to compress only the muddy bass when the signal gets louder.
Click to expand...
How is multiband EQ going to compress mud - and why would you want to do that?

Clark Kent said:
A compressor has many purposes. An 808 has many purposes. If you don't know what they are you shouldn't be using them. I actually know the purposes and I still choose not to use them.
Click to expand...
Please elaborate. I am interested in hearing your views on the purposes of compression and why you choose not to use it.
Click to expand...

The multiband compressor could probably allow you to compress (quiet) the lower/muddy frequencies (about 200-300Hz and lower) when those get louder, but without affecting the other frequencies. So you are taking out the mud without affecting the midrange and high frequency clarity. I don't know how well this actually works though - I still have to experiment with it. The reason why? It's probably much more important in metal than other genres where a very clear, articulate high gain sound is wanted, especially on palm mutes and lower tunings. It can make your guitar tone shrill though if you over do it.

Instead of saying you shouldn't use things I'll try help out a bit. Many purposes of an 808: You can use it as an actual distortion/overdrive device with the gain knob up. Sounds alright, but nowhere near power tube overdrive IMO. However, a lot of times people use it with the gain all the way down and the volume up at unity or as a boost. In this case it adds a little bit of drive or grit, but its mostly being used for bass frequency mud reduction (as I said before) and its also going to compress your signal quite a bit. So its doing a few things at once. Lots of people love this, and I've heard so many great metal tones that use a tubescreamer like this. I don't like it though. Seems to give it this artificial kind of tone. I like to just use pre-amp EQ and use more uncompressed boosts if I need it.
 
DawnOfIniquity said:
widrace said:
DawnOfIniquity said:
I usually just use a para-EQ before the amp block to fine tune the tightness of an amp, but I'm going to have to try experimenting with some multiband EQ to compress only the muddy bass when the signal gets louder.
Click to expand...
How is multiband EQ going to compress mud - and why would you want to do that?

Clark Kent said:
A compressor has many purposes. An 808 has many purposes. If you don't know what they are you shouldn't be using them. I actually know the purposes and I still choose not to use them.
Click to expand...
Please elaborate. I am interested in hearing your views on the purposes of compression and why you choose not to use it.
Click to expand...

The multiband compressor could probably allow you to compress (quiet) the lower/muddy frequencies (about 200-300Hz and lower) when those get louder, but without affecting the other frequencies. So you are taking out the mud without affecting the midrange and high frequency clarity. I don't know how well this actually works though - I still have to experiment with it. The reason why? It's probably much more important in metal than other genres where a very clear, articulate high gain sound is wanted, especially on palm mutes and lower tunings. It can make your guitar tone shrill though if you over do it.

Instead of saying you shouldn't use things I'll try help out a bit. Many purposes of an 808: You can use it as an actual distortion/overdrive device with the gain knob up. Sounds alright, but nowhere near power tube overdrive IMO. However, a lot of times people use it with the gain all the way down and the volume up at unity or as a boost. In this case it adds a little bit of drive or grit, but its mostly being used for bass frequency mud reduction (as I said before) and its also going to compress your signal quite a bit. So its doing a few things at once. Lots of people love this, and I've heard so many great metal tones that use a tubescreamer like this. I don't like it though. Seems to give it this artificial kind of tone. I like to just use pre-amp EQ and use more uncompressed boosts if I need it.
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I see my questioning was led astray by what was probably just a typo. You mentioned that you were going to experiment with multiband EQ to compress only the muddy bass. In your reponse to my question you stated multiband compression rather than multiband EQ, which makes way more sense and is probably what you meant to begin with. Good answer to what you may have thought was a challenging question - :D
 
thank you all for the responses. as someone else mentioned earlier, I'm not trying to just rip off his tone, but rather I want to understand how the compression affects the tone, dynamics, and feel of a high-gain patch. The reason I related to Bulb is simply because a) i like his tone, b) I know he uses the axe-fx, and c) people on this board are familiar with his gear/preferences. of course, my goal is to ultimately understand compression so that I can choose to use it in a way that allows me to create my own town. in that regard, this thread has been a success as i have a better understanding of compression in relation to high-gain patches. for anyone who is curious, i ultimately decided that it was unnecessary in this particular patch.

thanks all around
 
widrace said:
I see my questioning was led astray by what was probably just a typo. You mentioned that you were going to experiment with multiband EQ to compress only the muddy bass. In your reponse to my question you stated multiband compression rather than multiband EQ, which makes way more sense and is probably what you meant to begin with. Good answer to what you may have thought was a challenging question - :D
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Haha, whoops, yeah I meant multiband compression the whole time!
 
slothy one said:
my goal is to ultimately understand compression so that I can choose to use it in a way that allows me to create my own town.
Click to expand...
I'm probably repeating some things I wrote earlier, but here's a compression usage guideline for ya. The idea is to add dynamics and shape the envelope to suit. Many newbies believe compression and limiting is this horrible tool that just squashes tone. Quite the opposite.

This is an example of a typical production path where compression/limiting is employed - and is not only limited to guitar production. Once you see how the end result is accomplished you can apply whatever element of the process might apply to your live application. Lots of ways to do this actually...

Tracking: Use a low ratio (like 2-1) a fast attack with a fast release. All your doing is taming the hairy transients. The result is usually not audible - it's just a clean up and it keeps the meters from going off here and there. Pro-ass session guys do this all by themselves.

Track preparation: Now you need to start shaping the track to fit it's surroundings. At a minimum you want to level the remaining peaks so they don't poke out of the mix here and there. A pass at a low ratio may do it if it's a good track to begin with. If not you'll have to lean on it a bit. At this stage it's usually better to run the track though a couple passes of light compression rather that one heavy pass so you don't kill it. If you can't get this far think about re-tracking it.

Mixing: Having something now to work with, slow the attack time letting the front-end transients through to whatever amount you want and adjust the release time to fit the tune. All the dynamics should be back now and you should be hearing a very uniform performance that sits in the mix nicely.

Add parallel compression: Patch up a copy of the track as doctored so far and then compress the hell out of it. Take 15 or 20 db or so out of it using an attack and release to fit. The goal here is to create body/punch/pump/whatever that will be added to the original track. Pay no attention to the lack of front-end transients because the original track has all that.

Balancing: With the original track up and in mix context bring the compressed mess into the picture. The entire character of the track will change and the transients will all be there. Now fine tune compression and balance both tracks against one another to suit.

From this point on, production with compression has just begun really. The 2-mix is usually compressed as a whole, the mastering guy will lean on it some more with some multiband and then the radio station will kill it off with even more multiband making sure every last audible frequency is at maximum.

This entire path can be created within the Axe - leave the last two phases out please. Many compressors have a unique personality and are selected to reach a specific goal too. In comparison, the Axe's compressors don't really have a personality but that doesn't mean you can't get there from here - at all. EQ is also a big part of this. It's not uncommon to boost a region of the lows and highs in the parallel compressed tracks' return. All of this is commonly done with overhead mic tracks/vocals/drums/bass - everything for that matter

If you can't figure out why your tone doesn't jump out of the speakers...

More on compression: http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index. ... Compressor
 
Thanks, widrace. I've been meaning to really learn more about how to use compression and your post has given me a great start!
 
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