Using AX8 with MIDI amp (Diezel Herbert)

Thomas Obester

Thomas Obester

Experienced
Hi Guys, can someone please chime in, what does exactly mean that ax8 can SEND ONLY cc midi messages ?
I know ax8 has no relays, I would like to find out if I could use midi for everything, including switching channels on a midi head
Is it possible to use my ax8 with diezel herbert via midi for switching everything ? thanks
 
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The AX8 cannot send CC but only receive them. The manual is wrong with respect to this specific topic. As long as your Diezel reacts in PC messages (very likely) you're good as the AX8 allows to send PCs upon scene changes.
 
waxcalifornia said:
I think I remember the AX8 has the same tab and options in the edit software. Looks like you will have to put the amp MIDI to Omni mode for this to work. If nothing else, it is a good starting point to experiment figuring it out.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fx8-midi-for-channel-switching-help.153084/#post-1820956
Click to expand...

No, you should not need Omni mode. You can tell the Herbert which single channel to listen to, which is preferable. Then, in AX8Edit, click Midi, and for each scene, specify the Midi channel you've chosen, and the PC#.
 
Just because I was desperately searching for a quick tutorial, what to do to set up MIDI program changes (PC) from AX8 to Diezel Herbert:

On the AX8:
1. Just go to the MIDI section of your scene on AX8 editor
2. select any Scene PC# (0-127), note that the Herbert is normally running on omni mode which means the MIDI channel is neglectable

On the Herbert:
3. switch on/off any of the channel, mid cut, volume 2 and or loop switches in any combination
4. push the the store switch on the Herbert 2 times
=> done.

Herbert stores the adjusted switch combination under the scene PC# you have selcted.

f.ex.:
Scene PC#: 54 = Channel 3, Mid Cut, Volume 2 and FX Loop on.
Scene PC#: 12 = Channel 2 & FX-Loop on
Scene PC# : 127 = Channel 1 & Mute

It can't be more simple as that.
 
Jacky Thrilla said:
Just because I was desperately searching for a quick tutorial, what to do to set up MIDI program changes (PC) from AX8 to Diezel Herbert:

On the AX8:
1. Just go to the MIDI section of your scene on AX8 editor
2. select any Scene PC# (0-127), note that the Herbert is normally running on omni mode which means the MIDI channel is neglectable

On the Herbert:
3. switch on/off any of the channel, mid cut, volume 2 and or loop switches in any combination
4. push the the store switch on the Herbert 2 times
=> done.

Herbert stores the adjusted switch combination under the scene PC# you have selcted.

f.ex.:
Scene PC#: 54 = Channel 3, Mid Cut, Volume 2 and FX Loop on.
Scene PC#: 12 = Channel 2 & FX-Loop on
Scene PC# : 127 = Channel 1 & Mute

It can't be more simple as that.
Click to expand...
Woow, cool info buddy, many thanks !
Is the ax8 producing any unwanted noise in this scenario ? I have some humbuster cables prepared though..
 
Hi Thomas,

yes it does produce noise with the 4CM, at least here with my AX8 and my Herbert. I've just ordered two humbuster cables, so I have no clue yet, if the humbuster cables solve the noise issue.

Until then I've just placed a noise gate module right behind the FX-Loop module in the AX8 Editor.

Greetings
JT
 
Update
I can't use my AX8 in the FX-Loop of the Herbert, the noise is way too much and unusable for me.
Tried Humbuster cables plus isolation box (Lehle P-Split) nd tweaked the I/O section of the AX8 but the noise is killing.

In a Marshall DSL100 Head the AX8 is working fine though .... even without isolation box.

Anyone experience with using the FX8 on the Diezel Herbert in particular?
 
Jacky Thrilla said:
Update
I can't use my AX8 in the FX-Loop of the Herbert, the noise is way too much and unusable for me.
Tried Humbuster cables plus isolation box (Lehle P-Split) nd tweaked the I/O section of the AX8 but the noise is killing.

In a Marshall DSL100 Head the AX8 is working fine though .... even without isolation box.

Anyone experience with using the FX8 on the Diezel Herbert in particular?
Click to expand...
Have you tried clicking on the input block in AX8 edit, selecting Intelligent Gate and playing with the threshold?

Thanks,
Andy
 
andyg_prs said:
Have you tried clicking on the input block in AX8 edit, selecting Intelligent Gate and playing with the threshold?

Thanks,
Andy
Click to expand...

Hi Andy,

yes I did, the amount of noise is still incredible with the Diezel Herbert. With other amps it's way better (like a Marshall DSL f.ex.). So I believe it's the Diezels FX-Loop design which doesn't seem to fit well with the AX8s output links.

Currently and after testing my analog pedalboard (which isn't noisy at all), I decided to purchase a multi-fx pedal from a big japanese brand which is working absolutely fine with the Herbert.

I'll keep the AX8 for recording and practicing at home of course because for this scenario it's perfect.

Greetings
JT
 
Just a bit off topic :)

I have sold both Herbert and my Friedman Be-50 deluxe.

After a week of tweaking, I have found that my Ax8 with Fryette PS-2 and Friedman 4x12 cab can be tweaked to sound as good and even better than these 2 amps.

Now my rig is even lighter and more portable.

I can only imagine what sonic difference would be to switch for III.

But, TBH, the form factor of AX8, price and sound is already so good, that I decided to sell 2 of the very best amps on a market today !

I am at the stage, where I can finally concenrate my GAS on aquiring rather more guitars and not tube amps - I was always tube amp maniac, but no more !

that´s just my experience anyway, YMMV.
 
Thomas Obester said:
Just a bit off topic :)

I have sold both Herbert and my Friedman Be-50 deluxe.

After a week of tweaking, I have found that my Ax8 with Fryette PS-2 and Friedman 4x12 cab can be tweaked to sound as good and even better than these 2 amps.

Now my rig is even lighter and more portable.

I can only imagine what sonic difference would be to switch for III.

But, TBH, the form factor of AX8, price and sound is already so good, that I decided to sell 2 of the very best amps on a market today !

I am at the stage, where I can finally concenrate my GAS on aquiring rather more guitars and not tube amps - I was always tube amp maniac, but no more !

that´s just my experience anyway, YMMV.
Click to expand...

Hi Thomas,

I am a non-professional, after playing modeler/profiler for the last couple of years, my wish was to have a tube amp in the rehearsal room so I decided to buy a Herbert.

My story really quick:
I sold my Kemper after 3 years, because of it's poor usability (in the meantime an editor seems to be available finally). I switched over to the great sounding and easy to use AX8 which is really a super nice device really great sounding, superb editor. I agree, pluged into the PA it sounds really amazing. Same sound as my recordings in the rehearsals. I really love the AX8!

But you know what, I have 2 hearts:
One is a modern heart which likes digital sound processors, modellers, profilers 'n stuff, the other heart is the heart of an old school rocker and sometimes a tubeamp is just what I want to play.

And my goal is to get rid of all the unneccessary stuff that gathered together in the last couple of years, So I want to keep two rigs, a digital rig with the AX8 and the tubeamp (and 2 guitars). All the other stuff has to go.

AX8 is for recording, practicing at home and also usable for rehearsals and gigging, the Herbert is just for fun and the good old tubeamp feeling, you know what I mean!

Greetings
JT
 
Jacky Thrilla said:
Hi Thomas,

I am a non-professional, after playing modeler/profiler for the last couple of years, my wish was to have a tube amp in the rehearsal room so I decided to buy a Herbert.

My story really quick:
I sold my Kemper after 3 years, because of it's poor usability (in the meantime an editor seems to be available finally). I switched over to the great sounding and easy to use AX8 which is really a super nice device really great sounding, superb editor. I agree, pluged into the PA it sounds really amazing. Same sound as my recordings in the rehearsals. I really love the AX8!

But you know what, I have 2 hearts:
One is a modern heart which likes digital sound processors, modellers, profilers 'n stuff, the other heart is the heart of an old school rocker and sometimes a tubeamp is just what I want to play.

And my goal is to get rid of all the unneccessary stuff that gathered together in the last couple of years, So I want to keep two rigs, a digital rig with the AX8 and the tubeamp (and 2 guitars). All the other stuff has to go.

AX8 is for recording, practicing at home and also usable for rehearsals and gigging, the Herbert is just for fun and the good old tubeamp feeling, you know what I mean!

Greetings
JT
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree with everything you said.

I would also love to keep both analog and digital rigs - but my ears gave me the advice to look for III to use in home for studio work and AX8 for live playing and gigging - it has that sound, especially when used with tube power amp as fryette and great cab.
It´s perfect for me and my sound for live playing, once the other instruments comes to play, you just can tell the difference.
 
Thomas Obester said:
Yes, I agree with everything you said.

I would also love to keep both analog and digital rigs - but my ears gave me the advice to look for III to use in home for studio work and AX8 for live playing and gigging - it has that sound, especially when used with tube power amp as fryette and great cab.
It´s perfect for me and my sound for live playing, once the other instruments comes to play, you just can tell the difference.
Click to expand...

Aaah now I get it:
You're using the Fryette Power Station as a tube poweramp together with a regular cab behind the AX8? Which makes sense because the AX8 has no poweramp.... great idea.

I usually use the AX8 connected to the PA and/or a Yamaha DXR10 which is also sounding great, even it gives me feedback like a regular amp in the rehearsals. It's not the same "amplike" feeling as a Kemper toaster has (or a real amp), but it's pretty close imho. The behaviour with low guitar volume is not as good as the Kempers or a regular tube amps, at least that is what I "feel".

What is the FX-Level settings you are using on the Fryette, high or low? Shouldn't it be "High" since the output of the AX8 is high impedance output? (that's just guessing!!)

But after rethinking your concept for awhile: Great idea, really clever setup!

Greetings
JT
 
Jacky Thrilla said:
Aaah now I get it:
You're using the Fryette Power Station as a tube poweramp together with a regular cab behind the AX8? Which makes sense because the AX8 has no poweramp.... great idea.

I usually use the AX8 connected to the PA and/or a Yamaha DXR10 which is also sounding great, even it gives me feedback like a regular amp in the rehearsals. It's not the same "amplike" feeling as a Kemper toaster has (or a real amp), but it's pretty close imho. The behaviour with low guitar volume is not as good as the Kempers or a regular tube amps, at least that is what I "feel".

What is the FX-Level settings you are using on the Fryette, high or low? Shouldn't it be "High" since the output of the AX8 is high impedance output? (that's just guessing!!)

But after rethinking your concept for awhile: Great idea, really clever setup!

Greetings
JT
Click to expand...

I am using loop return input of fryette. This way I have maximum headroom available.
Everything works great though. You can use any of the inputs - return input is the loudest.

I really spent a lot of time A/b-ing the ax8 and fryette vs. amps and honestly, it´s absolutely possible to tweak the sound to be 99,9% the same.

After I got the sound to be dead on, the next idea came.
Can I make it even better than a real amp ? 🤔 What would I change on a real amp to be more to my liking ?

So I started to experiment with preamp low cuts, definition,dynamics and couple of other parameters and then I A/B again vs amp and suddenly, I find myself much preffering my ax8. 🤗

Edit : I even tried ax8 with 2 friedman ASM´s and while the sound was great, it has nowhere near the punch of my Fryette PS-2 with real 4x12 cab.

Crazy world we live in !
 
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