Using a valve power amp....AxeFX power amps on or off??

B

Booomm

Inspired
Hi - Just wondered if I could get some views on this:

I'm amplifying the axe fx by going direct into the fx return of my valve head (Laney TT100) then into a Mesa 2x12 cab.

Initially I set up all my patches with the cabs and power amps switched off.......i.e the 'correct' way. However, i accidentally discovered that leaving the power amps on also sounds really good.....especially at lower volumes.

I realise it's all down to individual taste and also the type of amp you using, but i would be interested to know what others users generally prefer when going into a valve head or valve power amp.

Your thoughts would be welcome. Thanks.
 
A dedicated power amp should not be over driving and should be clean power only, at which point using the amp sims is ok.
 
Not sure why Luke thinks you can't overdrive your poweramp?

You can easily overdrive it by pumping big volume from the axe into it.

Don't use the power amp sims with your tubepower amp. They sound better at low volumes simply because there is doubling up of the presence and the saturation of the models poweramp which your amp will only display at mind numbing volumes. A/b with another guitar amp or a preamp into your power and you see the added poweramp sound fake and hyped when compared to the tube poweramp on its own.
 
I used them "off" when I was previously playing thru a Mosvalve MV-962 solid state power amp and now turn them "on" thru my Matrix GT-1000FX solid state power amp so go figure.

I guess amps just vary so as mentioned above, use what sounds best. With a tube amp source though, I agree that better is probably "off".
 
Do what sounds best to you. There is no right or wrong way. I play through a Mesa 2:90 power amp with the power amp sims on, cab sims off & it sounds great at all volumes.
 
I allways liked the "on" setting better. No matter what i run trough. Mesa 50/50 with "on" setting sounded better. Then i can "overdrive" the poweramp with the master in any amp. If i overdrive the Mesa itself, it would be to LOUD and also get overdrive on all the effects. It gets messy.

Better set the delay before the ampsim to control it. IMHO.

If you turn sag all the way down, it turns off the pa sim. So you can set it pr preset to. Choices :D
 
When I was using a valve PA (Boogie 50/50) I was always using PA sims on and cabs off.
If however you are planning to crank your valve PA, I would recommend to try with PA sims off AND on to see what suits you best.
If you're cranking the PA, you are going to have a good deal of coloration in your sound - not that this is something bad, you might like it, but you would have this coloration in every single patch you make, thus making every amp sim colored with your PA's sound/signature.
So, if versatility (using many different amp sims and you want them to sound different one from another) is your main concern, try NOT to crank the valve PA (if you can) so that it doesn't color your sound so much. If, on the other hand, you're happy with the sounds you get when you crank your valve PA, just use the PA sims as you feel better.
IOW, there's no right or wrong way to do it.
 
same arguement applies to cab blocks... on or off when you play through non-FRFR cabs...

my answer would be - what ever you think sounds coolest..

I'm not a fan of hard and fast rules...
I just poke and prod until I like something..
and if that means going against the grain [or general wisdom] then so what...

you have to try these things for yourself to determine what you like..

you have to try them at home in a practice situation..
and then again at gig volume [cos things can and often do change some when you turn up the wick]
 
It's true that "some" tube power amps will "color" the tone, but I don't think anyone can say, without analyzing the results of every tube amp, that you should have PA sims off when using a tube PA. It depends on the design and overall headroom of the tube PA. There are plenty of "clean power" tube amps on the market. As has been demontrated on the forum, even the most popular SS amps used by forum members can vary from one another. It really does just come down to what works best for your setup and taste. I always use PA sims through tube power amps, but I try and stay with power amps that retain the character of the input signal. Just my personal opinion, of course.
 
I just got back from the rehearsal studio where I ran my axe FX II into my live rig ( Marshall EL34/100/100 4 x 1960 4x12's) for the first time.

After a lot of experimentation I ended up with cab and PA simms off - PA simms were just adding to much brightness into the sound for me..

Really super impressed with this setup - virtually impossible to get a duff sound out of it - and the JCM800's Mesa's etc just sound marvellous - totally natural and organic.
 
zack said:
After a lot of experimentation I ended up with cab and PA simms off - PA simms were just adding to much brightness into the sound for me...
Click to expand...

Okay... new Axe-FX II owner here (rev 9x)... I am aware of the Amp and Cab blocks, but is there a PowerAmp block I should be concerned about as well? Wondering since I will be playing through either my Marshall JVM head or Matrix GT1000. (At this point in time I will not be playing thru powered speakers.)
 
I'll be honest. I went through a peavey 5150 2x12 with power amp sims on and off, didn't notice a difference. Then went to a QSC RMX850 and had power amp sims on all the time. Now I'm using a Marshall jcm900 head with sims off currently, more headroom and seems to be a bigger tone. But I agree with previous poster saying sims on at low volume sounds cool. Honestly it's just whatever sounds good to you.
 
MarkShrader said:
Okay... new Axe-FX II owner here (rev 9x)... I am aware of the Amp and Cab blocks, but is there a PowerAmp block I should be concerned about as well? Wondering since I will be playing through either my Marshall JVM head or Matrix GT1000. (At this point in time I will not be playing thru powered speakers.)
Click to expand...

The power amp simulation is part of the amp block. It can be turned off globally in the global menu or in each individual preset amp block by turning the sag parameter to zero.
 
notalemming said:
The power amp simulation is part of the amp block. It can be turned off globally in the global menu or in each individual preset amp block by turning the sag parameter to zero.
Click to expand...

Ah, the ole "sag parameter to zero" trick! Okay, thanks notalemming, I see the "power amp" parameter in the global area now... So I wonder if this will be a situation where my Matrix GT1000FX will need it, and my Marshall JVM won't? Has anyone found themselves in this similar situation? If so, any thoughts?
 
depends on the amp, the volume/headroom and your taste.

I used to run my VHT with amp sims on - but it was a relatively newtural amp with little colouration until it started cooking, and I never really had it up far enough for that to happen.

So - if its low volume, or you have plently of headroom at the levels your playing and its a neutral sounding amp, then leaving the amp sims on can really work. On the other hand if its an amp with its own characture at all volumes, its low wattage, or your playing at a level that leaves you no headroom then amp sims off is generally the way to go. Personal taste may change these "defaults" though.
 
i have been using my Axe-FX II with a Fryette 2/90/2 and Bogner 2x12OS with V30's. I def like to keep the amp sim (sag) on, I do turn off the cabinet sim.

Chuck
 
clarky said:
same arguement applies to cab blocks... on or off when you play through non-FRFR cabs...

my answer would be - what ever you think sounds coolest..

I'm not a fan of hard and fast rules...
I just poke and prod until I like something..
and if that means going against the grain [or general wisdom] then so what...

you have to try these things for yourself to determine what you like..

you have to try them at home in a practice situation..
and then again at gig volume [cos things can and often do change some when you turn up the wick]
Click to expand...

need to update this..... especially as when I wrote that comment I hadn't yet tried the Axe through my backline..

personally, I prefer the cab sims off when playing through my 1960b cabs..
and the difference [to my ears] is huge...
 
notalemming said:
Do what sounds best to you. There is no right or wrong way. I play through a Mesa 2:90 power amp with the power amp sims on, cab sims off & it sounds great at all volumes.
Click to expand...

That's my setup as well. It sounds great with the amp sims on and doesn't sound great with them off.
 
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