Chris Hurley
Power User
Its been interesting (and painful) to see how the used market for our beloved Fractal Audio gear is changing as more and more products are released. I find it sort of fascinating to think through how it might shake out over time. How do you see it?
I remember selling my Axe-FX Ultra for about $1800 to RackSystems when the Axe-FX II came out because they needed them for tour rigs. For years, you could sell your fractal for a couple hundred dollar discount pretty reliably. I think I bought and sold Axe-FX II units enough times to get a free one with all of the money I lost but just a little at a time.
NOW, there is a LOT of competition in the family- ignoring devices from other brands. In my mind, those things mostly don't compete because of what the Fractal stuff does.
With the introduction of the Axe3 Mk2/Turbo and FM9, I think we're in the beginning of a reckoning on the "price protection" we've enjoyed. Its a good time to be a buyer of the older versions.
The introduction of the Axe-FX3 Mk2/Turbo releases and FullRes limitations combined to be like a neutron bomb on Axe3 mk 1 pricing. It went from being where you could get $2000 for one pretty easily to you are lucky to get $1600 or so. I bought mine at initial full price, so this had a sting for me but such is life and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it while I had it.
I'd imagine the FM9 introduction could also be a factor. This has created a tremendous value for used buyers because the mk1 Axe3 is still a monstrously powerful unit.
The FM3 should have put downward pressure on the AX8 pricing but that hasn't shown up as much as I'd expect. I think periodic FM3 availability issues have helped support the AX8 pricing but with FM3 widely available used and new, I'm thinking AX8 price will need to be around 600-700 to be sellable. If you're willing to ship overseas or there is a backorder on FM3, that would help support used pricing. I don't see AX8 for $800 selling.
Of course there seem to be a LOT of Axe-FX II products for sale. The XL+ is having a particularly hard time. While it is better in some ways than the Mk1 and Mk2, its still the older generation so it doesn't command a big premium. I had a particularly hard time selling one for $1000 recently. I see people trying to get $1300+ and expect they will need to recalculate.
If the Axe-FX II XL+ is holding around $1000, that means the Mk1/Mk2 really needs to be a bit under that. I think $800-$900 is probably where these are landing today. I see a lot of them sitting and sitting at $1000.
The MFC floor boards are an interesting anomaly. They seem to command very little premium on an Axe-FX II deal, but they can sell for a couple hundred bucks if you break them out of the deal. I assume a lot of people have a controller already so that the MFC is just a nice-to-have or pot sweetener. I don't see them adding a couple hundred bucks to most Axe-FX II sales.
I'm not sure how an Axe-FX II at $850 impacts an AX8. Personally, I'd want the Axe-FX II because I have multiple MIDI controllers already, but some people want the all-in one, and extra switches, so I think the AX8 gets support to around $600-$700. There is always the spectacle of "for a little more, you should just get the FM3- newer, better, yada yada." The amp knobs and foot switches are worth something but I don't think these help too much.
Then you get to the Ultra and Standard. If an Axe-FX II is $800 or so and an AX8 is $600-700, an Ultra at $700 makes no sense at all, unless you just prefer the way the global amps work (its cool), or the front input controls, or the physical depth. A Standard at $700 makes even less sense. I see Ultra's sitting unsold for periods of time until they get around $500 and some of those may be taking best offers that are less. I'd think a Standard really has to be $150 less.
On the other hand, these units should get some price support from the fact that most any rackmount effects unit is going to be at least a few hundred bucks in good order. I ended up with an Ultra recently for this reason- I wanted a rack delay/EQ/reverb and I could get a Fractal for just "a little bit more" than a used IntelliFex. The Ultra still has capabilities far beyond most other rack gear and even the amp modelling is still very credible. I can't wait to be able to buy an Ultra for $300, but I'm not sure I'll see that point. I think people will likely just hang onto them until they die.
Local sales where there is no tax, shipping or fees are good for both parties if you can manage it. You can get premiums if you're willing to risk overseas shipping where availability isn't as good.
Just thinking about it for amusement sake. Don't make any investments based on this.
How do you see it?
I remember selling my Axe-FX Ultra for about $1800 to RackSystems when the Axe-FX II came out because they needed them for tour rigs. For years, you could sell your fractal for a couple hundred dollar discount pretty reliably. I think I bought and sold Axe-FX II units enough times to get a free one with all of the money I lost but just a little at a time.
NOW, there is a LOT of competition in the family- ignoring devices from other brands. In my mind, those things mostly don't compete because of what the Fractal stuff does.
With the introduction of the Axe3 Mk2/Turbo and FM9, I think we're in the beginning of a reckoning on the "price protection" we've enjoyed. Its a good time to be a buyer of the older versions.
The introduction of the Axe-FX3 Mk2/Turbo releases and FullRes limitations combined to be like a neutron bomb on Axe3 mk 1 pricing. It went from being where you could get $2000 for one pretty easily to you are lucky to get $1600 or so. I bought mine at initial full price, so this had a sting for me but such is life and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it while I had it.
I'd imagine the FM9 introduction could also be a factor. This has created a tremendous value for used buyers because the mk1 Axe3 is still a monstrously powerful unit.
The FM3 should have put downward pressure on the AX8 pricing but that hasn't shown up as much as I'd expect. I think periodic FM3 availability issues have helped support the AX8 pricing but with FM3 widely available used and new, I'm thinking AX8 price will need to be around 600-700 to be sellable. If you're willing to ship overseas or there is a backorder on FM3, that would help support used pricing. I don't see AX8 for $800 selling.
Of course there seem to be a LOT of Axe-FX II products for sale. The XL+ is having a particularly hard time. While it is better in some ways than the Mk1 and Mk2, its still the older generation so it doesn't command a big premium. I had a particularly hard time selling one for $1000 recently. I see people trying to get $1300+ and expect they will need to recalculate.
If the Axe-FX II XL+ is holding around $1000, that means the Mk1/Mk2 really needs to be a bit under that. I think $800-$900 is probably where these are landing today. I see a lot of them sitting and sitting at $1000.
The MFC floor boards are an interesting anomaly. They seem to command very little premium on an Axe-FX II deal, but they can sell for a couple hundred bucks if you break them out of the deal. I assume a lot of people have a controller already so that the MFC is just a nice-to-have or pot sweetener. I don't see them adding a couple hundred bucks to most Axe-FX II sales.
I'm not sure how an Axe-FX II at $850 impacts an AX8. Personally, I'd want the Axe-FX II because I have multiple MIDI controllers already, but some people want the all-in one, and extra switches, so I think the AX8 gets support to around $600-$700. There is always the spectacle of "for a little more, you should just get the FM3- newer, better, yada yada." The amp knobs and foot switches are worth something but I don't think these help too much.
Then you get to the Ultra and Standard. If an Axe-FX II is $800 or so and an AX8 is $600-700, an Ultra at $700 makes no sense at all, unless you just prefer the way the global amps work (its cool), or the front input controls, or the physical depth. A Standard at $700 makes even less sense. I see Ultra's sitting unsold for periods of time until they get around $500 and some of those may be taking best offers that are less. I'd think a Standard really has to be $150 less.
On the other hand, these units should get some price support from the fact that most any rackmount effects unit is going to be at least a few hundred bucks in good order. I ended up with an Ultra recently for this reason- I wanted a rack delay/EQ/reverb and I could get a Fractal for just "a little bit more" than a used IntelliFex. The Ultra still has capabilities far beyond most other rack gear and even the amp modelling is still very credible. I can't wait to be able to buy an Ultra for $300, but I'm not sure I'll see that point. I think people will likely just hang onto them until they die.
Local sales where there is no tax, shipping or fees are good for both parties if you can manage it. You can get premiums if you're willing to risk overseas shipping where availability isn't as good.
Just thinking about it for amusement sake. Don't make any investments based on this.
How do you see it?