Used Fractal Audio Gear Pricing

Chris Hurley

Power User
Its been interesting (and painful) to see how the used market for our beloved Fractal Audio gear is changing as more and more products are released. I find it sort of fascinating to think through how it might shake out over time. How do you see it?

I remember selling my Axe-FX Ultra for about $1800 to RackSystems when the Axe-FX II came out because they needed them for tour rigs. For years, you could sell your fractal for a couple hundred dollar discount pretty reliably. I think I bought and sold Axe-FX II units enough times to get a free one with all of the money I lost but just a little at a time.

NOW, there is a LOT of competition in the family- ignoring devices from other brands. In my mind, those things mostly don't compete because of what the Fractal stuff does.

With the introduction of the Axe3 Mk2/Turbo and FM9, I think we're in the beginning of a reckoning on the "price protection" we've enjoyed. Its a good time to be a buyer of the older versions.

The introduction of the Axe-FX3 Mk2/Turbo releases and FullRes limitations combined to be like a neutron bomb on Axe3 mk 1 pricing. It went from being where you could get $2000 for one pretty easily to you are lucky to get $1600 or so. I bought mine at initial full price, so this had a sting for me but such is life and I got a lot of enjoyment out of it while I had it.

I'd imagine the FM9 introduction could also be a factor. This has created a tremendous value for used buyers because the mk1 Axe3 is still a monstrously powerful unit.

The FM3 should have put downward pressure on the AX8 pricing but that hasn't shown up as much as I'd expect. I think periodic FM3 availability issues have helped support the AX8 pricing but with FM3 widely available used and new, I'm thinking AX8 price will need to be around 600-700 to be sellable. If you're willing to ship overseas or there is a backorder on FM3, that would help support used pricing. I don't see AX8 for $800 selling.

Of course there seem to be a LOT of Axe-FX II products for sale. The XL+ is having a particularly hard time. While it is better in some ways than the Mk1 and Mk2, its still the older generation so it doesn't command a big premium. I had a particularly hard time selling one for $1000 recently. I see people trying to get $1300+ and expect they will need to recalculate.

If the Axe-FX II XL+ is holding around $1000, that means the Mk1/Mk2 really needs to be a bit under that. I think $800-$900 is probably where these are landing today. I see a lot of them sitting and sitting at $1000.

The MFC floor boards are an interesting anomaly. They seem to command very little premium on an Axe-FX II deal, but they can sell for a couple hundred bucks if you break them out of the deal. I assume a lot of people have a controller already so that the MFC is just a nice-to-have or pot sweetener. I don't see them adding a couple hundred bucks to most Axe-FX II sales.

I'm not sure how an Axe-FX II at $850 impacts an AX8. Personally, I'd want the Axe-FX II because I have multiple MIDI controllers already, but some people want the all-in one, and extra switches, so I think the AX8 gets support to around $600-$700. There is always the spectacle of "for a little more, you should just get the FM3- newer, better, yada yada." The amp knobs and foot switches are worth something but I don't think these help too much.

Then you get to the Ultra and Standard. If an Axe-FX II is $800 or so and an AX8 is $600-700, an Ultra at $700 makes no sense at all, unless you just prefer the way the global amps work (its cool), or the front input controls, or the physical depth. A Standard at $700 makes even less sense. I see Ultra's sitting unsold for periods of time until they get around $500 and some of those may be taking best offers that are less. I'd think a Standard really has to be $150 less.

On the other hand, these units should get some price support from the fact that most any rackmount effects unit is going to be at least a few hundred bucks in good order. I ended up with an Ultra recently for this reason- I wanted a rack delay/EQ/reverb and I could get a Fractal for just "a little bit more" than a used IntelliFex. The Ultra still has capabilities far beyond most other rack gear and even the amp modelling is still very credible. I can't wait to be able to buy an Ultra for $300, but I'm not sure I'll see that point. I think people will likely just hang onto them until they die.

Local sales where there is no tax, shipping or fees are good for both parties if you can manage it. You can get premiums if you're willing to risk overseas shipping where availability isn't as good.

Just thinking about it for amusement sake. Don't make any investments based on this. :)

How do you see it?
 
There's many sides to this. You've got basic supply/demand, which says that if people would rather buy a new Turbo, that's one less person who might consider getting a used Mk I, thus making it slightly less valuable. BUT, as more and more people become aware of Fractal products (just look at how many people join this forum every day--and I bet FAS watches that metric to help them make decisions), that means the demand actually becomes greater.

If a person really does their research, and doesn't simply buy the flagship model because they just want the "best," then I think most demand would be for an FM9. But people buy for all sorts of reasons. And there's a lot of people for whom 2.5K isn't really a reach.

Personally, I considered trying a used Axe II last December, but I can't get past the complexity of these devices, and the possibility of something going wrong, and then the cost of getting it repaired would have then exceeded the cost of a new unit. Or the fact that since they can do so much, maybe something on the used unit doesn't even work when I bought it, and the seller didn't use that feature, so he wasn't even aware of it. Knowing what I know now about the current Axe units, especially the FW updates, there's no way I'd even consider buying a previous generation unit. At.All.

So for me, it's not really about the prices of used units. It's about, and always has been, how comfortable I am with its reliability. Things wear out. Heat/cooling cycles take components that closer to the end of their life. Technicians don't always find the problems the first time, even Fractal techs, even with a current unit (as evidenced in a recent thread.) Sometimes they don't diagnose the problem correctly, fix the wrong thing, and you're out even more money. I'd just as soon avoid as much of that risk by staying away from previous generations. But that's just me, since you asked. ;)
 
So for me, it's not really about the prices of used units. It's about, and always has been, how comfortable I am with its reliability. Things wear out. Heat/cooling cycles take components that closer to the end of their life. Technicians don't always find the problems the first time, even Fractal techs, even with a current unit (as evidenced in a recent thread.) Sometimes they don't diagnose the problem correctly, fix the wrong thing, and you're out even more money. I'd just as soon avoid as much of that risk by staying away from previous generations. But that's just me, since you asked. ;)

A completely different take and totally on the mark. Used ones can be sold at some price since there is the general assumption that it will work when you get it or the seller should take it back. A dishonest person won't do that, so there is some risk.
 
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Couldn't the "taking back" thing can be a little tricky, though? For example, let's say you don't record, and you buy a used MK I as a backup. Let's say you use it so you can offload some DSP load from your other MK I, so you can take better advantage of the FullRes IR's. (Ha, a year ago I wouldn't know what any of those terms meant. "Hey Mom! Look at me!!") But you later decide to try your hand at recording, and find the USB board is fried. It's been 6 months, so you really can't go back to the seller.

That's an extreme example for sure, but it could happen. I definitely agree with you however. I suppose the best way to avoid this, would be to learn enough about the unit you wish to purchase, and make sure you can try out all of its capabilities shortly after you receive it. But that can be hard to do, when you have a guitar in your hand, and Axe by your side. I still have barely scratched the surface of what my III MkII can do! ;) I turn it on, find my preset du jour, and GO!

But back to the gist of your op, the new offerings are certainly going to attract more attention of the market, and thus drive down prices of the earlier generation units. Just how much? If I had an old item, I'd probably try to interest a friend into buying it, in the hope we could agree on a price that would keep the Reverb/Ebay/PayPal/Shipping fees in our pockets. And possibly also get more money for the unit, since he'd be buying from someone he knows, and knows that he's pretty anal with taking care of his stuff...
 
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