Used 4CM at last nights gig - wow!

GuitarMan86

GuitarMan86

Power User
I use several rigs between bands and try different things here and there.

My slim down rig is my AxeII with a Matrix GT1000FX and a 2x12 stereo G-Flex cabinet.

Well, last night I used my Splawn in 4CM (been a while) with the AxeII and my cabs....and Wow!
I love the tone of my Splawn by itself....but, I have been playing the AxeII mainly and using my tube Amps here and there.

The "feel" and "air","thump", "bounce" I got playing live last night was simply awesome.....8)
I'm trying to still achieve that same feeling when playing with the Matrix/AxeII. I'm very close but....not quite the same yet. I "hear" the same tone....but I can't actually say I feel the same tone?

Anyone overcome this difference and have ideas?
 
Do a search through Cliff's posts. There's one thread where he describes how to find the resonant peak frequency for your particular cabs. You can then dial it in in the Amp modelling section to get that 'thump'. This is the way to go with real guitar cabs.
 
I did some reading up on some previous threads...... Didn't come across Cliffs mention yet.

I will give this a try and see if that helps the "feel" that I seem to be lacking. I noticed how this has a default setting for the speaker that was used to record it etc...... Hope that is the key to what I seem to be lacking on a guitar cab usage. Hmmm
 
vinnieRice said:
Do a search through Cliff's posts. There's one thread where he describes how to find the resonant peak frequency for your particular cabs. You can then dial it in in the Amp modelling section to get that 'thump'. This is the way to go with real guitar cabs.
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I haven't seen that post, but here's one by Scott P. that goes to the heart of the matter.

Scott Peterson said:
Following is a post I did on another thread; but try my method of dialing that tab. It works well for me:

The Speaker Resonance tab to me in my words is the way to dial in the symbiotic relationship between the power amp (transformer/output tubes/rectifier) to the speaker/cab *and* vice versa. They are a system, not independent. Small changes to the resonance has the effect of dialing in the amp/cab as a system. If you spend 30 minutes of critical listening on a reference level system while making small changes, you'll hear it and added to the visual addition of a graph... you can now 'see' what you 'hear'. You will learn very fast what works, how it works. After that first "learning" tweak period, you'll spend a minute or less dialing it from there on out.

My process is this: ... bump the low end HZ slightly, listening. When you hear it 'blow up' on the low end, back it down. Then turn the low end resonance up till it blows up again, then slightly back off. Then change the "Q" and balance between the level and the Q till it is fat, but tight. Then on the high end just turn the level up slightly, a bit at a time... it'll start to explode on the top end, back off slightly. Done. Mess with the middle by turning it up a touch at a time... often this gets left at zero in my world. **Added note: these changes are absolutely tiny, small increments. The key is to trust your ear. When it sounds like "too much" trust that instinct and back it down. You might only end up a few hundredths of a value from stock; but it will be worth it's weight in gold... trust me.
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Interesting.... Thanks Rex.

I'll have to give this a whirl tomorrow and see if it helps. I have been trying to uncover what special sauce I am missing when playing through my guitar cabs. The tone was definitely there....it's the response and feel that I am lacking.
 
GuitarMan86 said:
Interesting.... Thanks Rex.

I'll have to give this a whirl tomorrow and see if it helps. I have been trying to uncover what special sauce I am missing when playing through my guitar cabs. The tone was definitely there....it's the response and feel that I am lacking.
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Let me know how it goes.

Another thought: I don't know what conditions you're playing under, but sometimes the missing feel is just from lack of volume. If you're playing at low volume, turn it up a bit, and your guitar will spring to life.
 
Still not able to quite get there.....
I have adjusted the mentioned settings in the Speaker tab (Low Freq Hz, Low Q, Low Res) for starters. But, it seems to only adjust the EQ curve to bring it out/up further etc. When adjusted you can certainly hear the EQ adjustments but it doesnt seem to push the cab/air....if that makes sense.

I am getting the tone exact to my liking to match the AMP model I am experimenting with (Spawn Q-Rod 1st)
I have the real tube amp right beside the cab I am using and when I A/B the real tube amp and the AxeII AMP model Spawn Q-Rod 1st I can get the tone.....but the feel is what I can tell the difference with.
Hard to explain....other than 'air', 'bounce', 'reflex' that I cant seem to nail.

Any other suggestions?
 
GuitarMan86 said:
Still not able to quite get there.....
I have adjusted the mentioned settings in the Speaker tab (Low Freq Hz, Low Q, Low Res) for starters. But, it seems to only adjust the EQ curve to bring it out/up further etc. When adjusted you can certainly hear the EQ adjustments but it doesnt seem to push the cab/air....if that makes sense.
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It should do more than just change the EQ. When the LF resonance matches the LF resonance of your cab, you'll feel a difference, assuming you're playing at the same volume as your tube amp (you are, right?).

Otherwise, try:

  • Depth;
  • Dynamic Depth;
  • XFRMR Match;
  • Thunk.
 
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A tube amp is not the same thing as Matrix with tube amp simulation.

I don't understand why people think that. I'm not saying that a Matrix rig can't sound good... I'm just saying that it's not going to be 100% like a real tube amp driving a real cab. The issue is that the Matrix is NOT doing the same thing to the signal as a tube amp and it doesn't matter what kind of emulation or simulation you have before the Matrix, it will never be a tube amp. And you can't match EQ it because the difference is not just EQ.

Bare in mind that power amps affect the tone a lot also so the issue with using a tube power amp is that many preamps will end up sounding similar.

So IMHO if you want the Axe-Fx versatility then ditch the real guitar cabs and use FRFR monitors.

I'm still waiting for Fractal to make a product solution for replacing a real cab and tube amps in a room context since let's face it: many of us still enjoy playing real cabs.

Imagine changing your "cab" in your Axe-Fx and it feeling exactly like you had another cabinet in the room your playing with.

BOOOOOOM!!!!!
 
I'm still trying to determine the ....."when the LF resonance matches the LF resonance of your cab you'll feel a difference"
I am playing at a pretty high volume for both when testing.

Thunk I have set to around noon.
Depth I have around 10 o'clock or so
Dynamic depth and Xfrmr match I have as default....will experiment with that



I realize it is not the same as a tube amp.....just trying to get as close as possible with the feel portion.
 
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Pete...............look into the lights................... the light of the tubes :)
I tried all of that stuff. it just wan't the same (we heard it here yesterday)
that girth, harmonic richness and "response" that a tube amp adds is just not in an SS power amp
At least I haven't been able to "find it" and believe me it's not due to lack of trying LOL!
 
I get that but the thing is that if you are using a line out to go to FOH and tweaking your amp so that it's good through your stage monitoring you'll most likely have to sacrifice between one of the tones. And running two amp blocks for both signals just feels like avoiding the real problem to me... but that's just me. :)
 
kmanick said:
Pete...............look into the lights................... the light of the tubes :)
I tried all of that stuff. it just wan't the same (we heard it here yesterday)
that girth, harmonic richness and "response" that a tube amp adds is just not in an SS power amp
At least I haven't been able to "find it" and believe me it's not due to lack of trying LOL!
Click to expand...

Hah... I know....I know
Why do you think I made this post! Lol

Just looking for other ideas to get closer. Not gonna happen heh
 
Clark Kent said:
I get that but the thing is that if you are using a line out to go to FOH and tweaking your amp so that it's good through your stage monitoring you'll most likely have to sacrifice between one of the tones. And running two amp blocks for both signals just feels like avoiding the real problem to me... but that's just me. :)
Click to expand...

Exactly..... I realize. Just reaching for ideas and trial and error. :/
 
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