USB Dry Input Level is Extremely Low

Hello all,
I'm attempting to track with the Axe III via USB for the first time. When I track anything, the level on USB 1 is healthy for the wet but the signal on USB 5 for the dry is exceedingly low. As in my meters peak around -30db and I can't get an acceptable volume with the fader alone. I need to gain the file by at least 24db before I can even work with it. I actually thought it didn't record at first because the waveform was a flat line before I gained it. This persists regardless of the input percentage adjustment or USB level adjustment. The output knobs don't seem to affect the USB recording level either. Any ideas what could be wrong?
 
When I track anything, the level on USB 1 is healthy for the wet but the signal on USB 5 for the dry is exceedingly low. As in my meters peak around -30db
that's how loud your guitar is going into the Axe. don't adjust that if you're sending it back to the Axe - then you aren't reamping the same signal.

what do you need to "work with" on the dry signal? many DAWs let you "magnify" the height of the wav file without actually increasing gain. it's very important to preserve exactly the level that's going into the Axe from the guitar.

i just did a recording session where i reamped. it was glorious. nail the performance, fix the tone later.
 
Thanks. Yeah, that adjusts the output level of the axe fx but not the USB input levels in a DAW. That was one of the things I had to check. I have an 18v preamp on my bass so I turned all the knobs up just to see. It clips the Axe FX III with the input percentage at 0% but the DAW level remains lower than expected. It was better at around -3db but the tone was garbage (those center detents are there for a reason!). The same input level clips way into the red on my Apogee Ensemble set to unity gain. In fact, the bass clips the interface at 0db gain set flat when I slap it. Weird that that would be considered a low level for the Axe III.

Zooming the waveforms would blow out all the tracks recorded at a good level and add unnecessary steps in to my workflow zooming in and out all the time. Would work but impractical for the long term.
 
You're overthinking it. The digital signal is 32 bits. That's nearly 200 dB of dynamic range. Even if your at -30 dB you still have 170 dB of dynamic range. The dynamic range of a guitar (or bass guitar or microphone or kazoo) is nowhere near that great. You're lucky to get 80 dB because of self-noise and environmental noise.

The signal sent to the USB is basically a copy of what the Axe-Fx processes. Just record it, don't worry about what the waveform looks like and reamp it later.
 
You're overthinking it. The digital signal is 32 bits. That's nearly 200 dB of dynamic range. Even if your at -30 dB you still have 170 dB of dynamic range. The dynamic range of a guitar (or bass guitar or microphone or kazoo) is nowhere near that great. You're lucky to get 80 dB because of self-noise and environmental noise.

The signal sent to the USB is basically a copy of what the Axe-Fx processes. Just record it, don't worry about what the waveform looks like and reamp it later.
Sorry for resurrecting this old thread but I have a doubt about this.
I recorded some DI tracks for reamping and, since there are various guitar volume roll-offs during the execution, some parts have a really low level (around -70/-75 dBFS).
My daw (cubase) can record at 32 bits, but would that be useful in this case or the fm9's inputs noise floor would still be higher than the quantization noise of a 24 bit wav file?
And in case it's useful or if I'd just like to use 32 bit even if it's overkill, what does the fm9 usb sends out? 32 bit floating point or integer?
 
You're overthinking it. That -70 dB signal is exactly what you would be sending to the FM9 from your guitar when your volume is rolled off. So, to match what you would get from your guitar, that's the correct level for the DI when the volume is rolled off.

Cubase doesn't record the FM9 at 32 bit. It has the option of storing the recorded audio as 32 bit, but that has no effect the recorded audio. That 32 bit option is only for an unusual use case where you're transferring intermediate processed audio files to another project.
 
You're overthinking it. That -70 dB signal is exactly what you would be sending to the FM9 from your guitar when your volume is rolled off. So, to match what you would get from your guitar, that's the correct level for the DI when the volume is rolled off.
Yep, I know that, my question wasn't about the level in fact. On the fm9 that signal is 32-bit while once recorded it's 24-bit, hence my question.
Anyway, I think I've figured out a way to test this out, so I'll report back once I do.

Cubase doesn't record the FM9 at 32 bit. It has the option of storing the recorded audio as 32 bit, but that has no effect the recorded audio. That 32 bit option is only for an unusual use case where you're transferring intermediate processed audio files to another project.
If that's actually how cubase works then my question becomes irrelevant.
But are you sure about that? Cuz I've recently seen some videos about the new Rode NT1 mic which can record at 32-bit FP and cubase actually recorded in that format (meaning it could scale down a clipped recording and restore the correct waveform), so if the interface actually supports that bit depth Cubase seems able to manage it.
 
Yes, I’m sure. It's a bit confusing, but 24 bit int has basically the same resolution as 32 bit float, so even if you could change the FM9 to emit 32 bit float (you can't), it wouldn't change the noise floor characteristics.
 
Hi, Using Reaper with Axe FX 3 as interface. I'd like to re-amp. Input block 1 direct to output block 1 sends a much stronger signal than is recieved by DI Input 5 [IN 1 Intr]. If I loop the di signal back into the axe fx via IN USB the signal is much weaker than the vol originally coming from Input 1.
The only way to increase the signal is to treat it within the DAW or turn the vol up on the IN USB Block, then its just guess work...
 
Hi, Using Reaper with Axe FX 3 as interface. I'd like to re-amp. Input block 1 direct to output block 1 sends a much stronger signal than is recieved by DI Input 5 [IN 1 Intr]. If I loop the di signal back into the axe fx via IN USB the signal is much weaker than the vol originally coming from Input 1.
The only way to increase the signal is to treat it within the DAW or turn the vol up on the IN USB Block, then its just guess work...

If your Axe-FX and computer are set up properly it will be exactly the same. I would not recommend using the In USB block. Follow the instructions here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/

and here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-re-amping-tutorial.190686/

and make sure the USB 5/6 control on the Setup -> I/O -> USB page on the Axe-FX is set to 0 dB. Also, "Input 1 Gain" should be set to 0.0 when recording.
 
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This ↑. Record the DI from USB Inputs 5 and 6 (directly from the instrument inputs) and then send them back to USB Outputs 5 and 6 (directly back to the IN 1 block on the grid) when reamping. The results will be identical to the initial live recording. No need to add blocks to the preset or touch the DI level at all.
 
If your Axe-FX and computer are set up properly it will be exactly the same. I would not recommend using the In USB block. Follow the instructions here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-for-the-recording-musician.177592/

and here:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-re-amping-tutorial.190686/

and make sure the USB 5/6 control on the Setup -> I/O -> USB page on the Axe-FX is set to 0 dB. Also, "Input 1 Gain" should be set to 0.0
Everything is set to 0.0, In my DAW I toggle between In 1 [out 1 block L] and IN 5 [in 1 instr] on the same track IN 5 [in 1 instr] is much lower, 0.0 db vs -18 db.
If I drop the IN 1 Block output level by -18db and compensate with Input 1 Gain in Setup I can get Identical levels
 
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Everything is set to 0.0, In my DAW I toggle between In 1 [out 1 block L] and IN 5 [in 1 instr] on the same track IN 5 [in 1 instr] is much lower, 0.0 db vs -18 db.
That's correct and that's exactly what you should expect. The out1 block adds 18 dB.

However, that's irrelevant for reamping. If you follow the instructions in the reamping tutorial video above the reamped track will sound exactly the same as when you plugin your guitar to the Axe-FX. If you deviate from those instructions, well, you should expect it will not work properly :).
 
That's correct and that's exactly what you should expect. The out1 block adds 18 dB.

However, that's irrelevant for reamping. If you follow the instructions in the reamping tutorial video above the reamped track will sound exactly the same as when you plugin your guitar to the Axe-FX. If you deviate from those instructions, well, you should expect it will not work properly :).
Good to Know, thanks a bunch!
 
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