Not a Bug USB A port unfunctional

T

Tocoapuffs

Member
Hey team, I got a USB A to A to connect my FM3 to FM3 edit. It doesn't work. I run windows 10 and my USB B (from the FM3) to A works to connect. I don't know if this is a known issue or if it's just my unit. The user manual doesn't say anything about it though.

I also don't get the dut-da-da-duh sound when I plug it in. (I do when I get a connection with the B to A cable) I tested the cable and it works (the computer ports are good too), I think it may be an issue with the USB A port on the FM3. My cable is USB 3.0, but that shouldn't matter since they're backwards compatible.
 
The A port currently has no function.

It's reserved for future use.

In any case it would not work for connecting to a computer.
 
The USB A port is NOT designed to be connected to a computer. It is reserved for future expansion.
 
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FractalAudio said:
The USB A port is NOT designed to be connected to a computer. It is reserved for future expansion.
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How is one supposed to know this? Not only is there no evidence of this on the unit, but the the manual even has diagrams which clearly show the FM3 hooked up to a computer using the left-hand USB-A port, rather than the right-hand USB-B port. See attached.

[Image Removed after it was corrected in the source]
 
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Here is the other diagram, from the following sheet of the manual, which clearly shows the USB-A hooked up to the computer, and the USB-B port empty. This is less notable because this diagram isn't explicitly telling you how to connect to the computer (that first diagram does that), but still... I can't fathom why anyone would be expected to intuit that the more common USB is dangerous to use, especially when the manual literally shows them that computers are supposed to be plugged into that very port.

[Image Removed after it was corrected in the source]
 
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Haha, whoopsie. It didn't damage my unit, so I'm fine, but now I have a useless USB cable.

Although, I agree with Wolfenstein98k, if it was dangerous to use that way, it shouldn't be drawn to be used that way in the manual. Also, I went looking in the USB section of the manual to see if it couldn't be used and there was no indication that either port was for a different purpose.
 
Wolfenstein98k said:
How is one supposed to know this? Not only is there no evidence of this on the unit, but the the manual even has diagrams which clearly show the FM3 hooked up to a computer using the left-hand USB-A port, rather than the right-hand USB-B port. See attached.
Click to expand...

Because in order to to that, you would have to use a cable outside of the USB spec (USB-A male to USB-A male), which is dangerous on any product.
 
The manual is being updated. We also looked into the ramifications of doing this and it WON'T damage anything. It just won't work.

And, please, don't bring the snarky TGP stuff here. If you have nothing constructive to say then stay out of the threads.
 
The manual has been corrected. In addition to the simple fix, I also added this illustration in three places, including the printed Quick Start that goes in the box. Please note that I did not increment the manual document version for this change, as a larger update was already in progress.

*FM3 Package Insert.indd @ 125% [GPU Preview] 2020-09-14 14-27-21.png
 
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AlbertA said:
Because in order to to that, you would have to use a cable outside of the USB spec (USB-A male to USB-A male), which is dangerous on any product.
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This isn't true. It only specifies to use a USB 2.0 compatible cable. USB A male to USB A male is a functional cable. Most (if not all) USB As are backwards compatible. So that would not danger a product which has intended function with a USB A port.
Also, saying "a user would need to be an idiot to follow instructions" is a pretty poor way of saying the instructions were wrong.
 
Tocoapuffs said:
This isn't true. It only specifies to use a USB 2.0 compatible cable. USB A male to USB A male is a functional cable. Most (if not all) USB As are backwards compatible. So that would not danger a product which has intended function with a USB A port.
Click to expand...

The original USB specification was such that type A was for hosts and B for clients. I have never in my life seen a piece of equipment that deviates from this convention. Do you know of one?
 
alexjplant said:
The original USB specification was such that type A was for hosts and B for clients. I have never in my life seen a piece of equipment that deviates from this convention. Do you know of one?
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I do! :)

We have some in-car DVD players for the back of the headrests. They can play individually or they can be linked so both play the same audio and video. The cable that links them is USB A to USB A.

Never seen anything else, though.
 
Tocoapuffs said:
This isn't true. It only specifies to use a USB 2.0 compatible cable. USB A male to USB A male is a functional cable. Most (if not all) USB As are backwards compatible. So that would not danger a product which has intended function with a USB A port.
Also, saying "a user would need to be an idiot to follow instructions" is a pretty poor way of saying the instructions were wrong.
Click to expand...

zZk8DOd.gif


This is demonstrably false. The spec COVERS connectors, including TYPE A and TYPE B and what the class roles associated with them.

TYPE A to TYPE A has never been in the USB SPEC. The closest is USB OTG which introduces mini-AB and micro-AB where both ends can negotiate the role but not TYPE A.
 
I don't normally use external devices, but companies make usb a to a cables, so they have a purpose. I would expect data transfer to not be picky about the port, but I never did a deep dive on it.

Anyway, it's really not important, AlbertA just remember to not be condescending in the future. Leave the thread positive so we encourage people to join the community. Thank you FractalAudio and Admin M@ for solving my issue.
 
unix-guy said:
I do! :)

We have some in-car DVD players for the back of the headrests. They can play individually or they can be linked so both play the same audio and video. The cable that links them is USB A to USB A.

Never seen anything else, though.
Click to expand...

Any cable can be made with those TYPE A connectors. But they wouldn't be certified by the USB consortium.
 
Tocoapuffs said:
I don't normally use external devices, but companies make usb a to a cables, so they have a purpose. I would expect data transfer to not be picky about the port, but I never did a deep dive on it.

Anyway, it's really not important, AlbertA just remember to not be condescending in the future. Leave the thread positive so we encourage people to join the community. Thank you FractalAudio and Admin M@ for solving my issue.
Click to expand...

No condescension here - just straight facts.
 
Didn't mean to snark -- it just seemed a bit on-the-nose to claim the customer is taking a big risk by following the manual's instructions.

On the USB stuff, I am completely oblivious to this issue because the USB-A cable I would use to plug the FM3 into a computer (if I were doing so) is the same as I would use to plug any other USB-A device in. A-to-A, male-to-male.

Anyway, the manual is corrected and we're all on the same page now. Apologies for my snark, though I don't think the original error (or snark) was mine. :D
 
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I don't really have many external things plugging into my computer. But I feel like the point of this has kind of veered. This was about incorrect instructions.

The instructions never specified in text which port to use. The picture that was attached that displayed how to connect to the unit showed that the USB A port was the one being used in the example. AlbertA referred to the last chapter when he said that the spec covers the cable, but he is incorrect. Even if you flip to the back of the book while reading the USB section (most people wouldn't) what the spec sheet said is that the port is "USB Audio Class 2.0 compliant." In the USB section all it says is "USB: USB 2.0 support required." (in reference to the USB) But, that's talking about the windows computer, not the cable. Again, there is no spec in the manual for the USB cable, so it would be hard for a user to find out if they were using a cable out of spec.

There were only two things in the entire manual indicating which port or what cable to use with it aside from compatibility with USB 2.0. Those were the images (now removed because of the upgrade in the manual) that Wolfenstein98k posted to help FractalAudio understand why a user would attempt to use the USB A port.

Assuming someone has enough prior knowledge to ignore incorrect instructions is the fault of the person giving the incorrect instructions, not the person following them.
 
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