Upset about the Axe-FX II release?

solo-act

Fractal Fanatic
Revised a couple things....
The Ultra lost hundreds in value overnight and users are pissed. Nothing wrong with being pissed off. I read through quite a few complaints and never felt the need to say anything.

But with users talking about suing Fractal, endless posts and multiple threads laying the blame at Cliffs feet for the overnight loss in the value of their Ultra, I've come with my rebuttal.

Those complaining have yet to admit they did not know or did not consider the following facts when buying their Ultras:
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Cliff has never released a lesser version of his hardware

He outgrew the standard in ONE year

Based on that, he most likely outgrew the Ultra in less than TWO

Historically, Cliff has been hell-bent on nailing the math of amps, something which doesn't easily squeeze into hardware, particularly old hardware

Outside of getting the MFC off the ground, he spends all his time coding for the Axe-FX (not the MFC, Axe-edit, or Atomic)

It's been THREE years since the Ultra was announced

So odds are he moved beyond the capabilities of the Ultra

Firmware updates went from flood to trickle, supporting Ultra was full, or new hardware, or both

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Those alone should've made new Ultra buyers pause, but it didn't.
Here's more to consider:
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EVERY time Cliff announced future hardware, people complained and even lambasted Fractal over production delays

So Fractal stopped talking about future hardware

If you're not going to talk about future hardware before it's released, you don't -- even if people call asking about it

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Based on that, and considering current axe-fx hardware was 3 years old, getting info on a future product most likely wasn't gonna happen
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So, if you didn't think about any of that before you bought the Ultra, did it pop into your head when everyone started talking about the countdown?
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Let's think it through anyway and look at two consequences:

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Announcing/talking about future products backfired, so talk of future products ceased, even when asked

Instead a countdown was created

If the countdown was for something big, and all the NEWEST hardware was "non-Cliff" hardware......

and the Cliff-specific hardware was the OLDEST hardware at 3 years old (Ultra)..........

and odds were Cliff had OUTGROWN that hardware........

and Fractal created a 10-day LEAD to let the world know something was coming......

Then -- despite how crazy it seemed, an Ultra-killer could no longer be dismissed, and the forum began talking about it

At that point, selling during countdown would've become a SERIOUS consideration

Consequences:

But what if it wasn't an Ultra-killer and you sold during countdown? At worst you'd be axe-less but values would stay the same, Fractal would re-supply, and you'd just buy another

However....if it WAS an Ultra-killer, and you didn't sell yours during the countdown, then...not only would yours instantly lose value, it would be hard to sell quickly after the fact. And if you had to sell it to get the axe-fx II then you'd either take a huge loss now or a smaller loss after the smoke cleared...god knows how long that'd take!

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If you had all that info above at the moment of truth, which consequence would you pick?

If you had HALF that info above and decided to sit on the sidelines with your new Ultra, who you gonna blame?

Fractal for not pre-announcing a future product?
Fractal for telling you there's NOT a future product? (not the best approach if true)
Fractal for running down inventory?
Fractal for running down inventory without telling people something is coming to replace it?
Fractal for not offering a full refund on B-stock which I believe was non-refundable in the first place?
Fractal for not creating a trade-in program?
Fractal for not offering a compensation to recent buyers who's return window just closed?

Or yourself for not thinking this s**t through?

If you simply didn't know the info listed above, you have all the right in the world to freak out and be pissed. But at least try to remember how much Fractal's competition short-changes their customers before you start laying blame at Cliff's feet.

I remain faithful to Fractal not because they're perfect, far from it. I remain faithful because IMO, no company has a better modeling product -- and the one's that try to don't have Fractal's personal response to, and respect of, their customers.

Cliff doesn't suffer fools, but he and his Fractal crew BUST THEIR ASSES to listen and deliver based on their customers' needs and feedback.

How much do I respect that? My sig says it all.
 
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Suffering fools is the price a developer has to pay when he has direct communication with the public. 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. I have a feeling that the majority of the fools probably don't, haven't, or never will own a FAS product anyway. I just hope Cliff doesn't tell everyone to piss off and we all lose the incredibly valuable resource of being able to communicate with him. Couldn't blame him if he did. It would only give him more time to concentrate on his next product.
 
"At that point, selling during countdown would've become a SERIOUS consideration"

It was. But enough people were saying there was no better hardware available so the AxeFx II seemed a very remote possibility. And then Cliff said nobody would be disappointed, which meant it could only possibly be awesome new firmware, not hardware, as new hardware would disappoint plenty of people who had just bought an Ultra. So that cemented it, no way would it be new hardware. Turns out it was, and turns out some people were disappointed.

I had a conversation during the countdown with the owner of a local music store who I'm friends with. He suggested assembling an eBay auction and if it did turn out to be new hardware, posting the auction immediately when the news broke. He sure was right. But I didn't do that, I figured with their strong customer support that Fractal would do something like let people who had bought in the past two or three months return their units which Fractal could then sell as refurbs, giving us something like $1800 for an Ultra that they could sell for $2k-- with no new stock people would still want to buy an Ultra as refurb if it came with a warranty. So I waited a bit for some announcement like that, which at this point seems like it's not gonna happen.

For what it's worth, when I was heavily researching the Ultra over a couple months before buying, what I kept reading was that it was the best thing possible, that no better hardware existed. When I saw a thread about USB being a possibility, during my eval period after buying my Ultra, I voiced concern and expressed that I would wanna return my unit during eval if that was on the horizon, but wasn't told "yep, we already developed it, it will be out in a few weeks". Before I even bought my Ultra I emailed Fractal and asked about ground loop issues and the response included mention that ground loops are always a concern, no mention of the humbuster technology that would help address my concern.

Hey, stuff happens. It's just really really bad timing for me, and others. Too bad for us. There are things that could have been done differently by all parties involved, and as it turns out, the smartest thing I could've done would have been to not buy my Ultra two months ago, just wait until it was deprecated. If it wasn't for the suggestion that no better technology than the Ultra was possible, I would have for sure waited. If someone said "oh, the Ultra is kinda old, improved technology is probably right around the corner"... But stuff happens, and bad timing is always a possibility.

Shouldn't have bought it, should have sold it on a gamble when the countdown was underway, coulda shoulda etc. If it wasn't for the fact that the Ultra is the most expensive thing I've ever bought other than a car, it would be a non-issue. But as it's the third most expensive thing I've bought in my entire life (two cars) it stings a little. Meh. Whatever.

The current quandary is whether or not it's worth investing more time in developing my Ultra patches. If I'm gonna sell it and upgrade, that's obviously a waste of time. But I honestly don't know what the future holds for me wrt Ultra vs AxeFx II, so I'm kinda stuck at the moment. At least when I play guitar I know I'm benefiting, so that's what I have to focus on right now.

This would all be so much easier if the AxeFx II didn't have substantial features I would take advantage of, or if I wasn't deleting blocks from my Ultra presets to keep them within the scope of its comfortable operating range. Funny how taking a great product and making it better can end up being a negative, at least in the short term, for some of us.

Meh!!
 
Oh and just a nitpick, but the title of this thread asks if people are upset about the release of the AxeFx II. I don't think anyone is upset about the release, or upset that the Axe II exists. I'm totally glad for it, I think it's great that Cliff still has boundaries he can push and that the company isn't resting on its laurels. I don't think anybody would truly be upset at the release of the new unit. What people are upset about is having very recently bought an Ultra only to find out now that for nearly the same price a unit could have been had that delivers functionality they'd really like to be able to leverage. That's what it is for me. I'm zero upset about the new unit. I'm upset about other stuff.
 
would it be fair to return an axe fx ultra if you just recieved it under the return policy to put toward the axe 2? Im in this position but they wont give me a straight answer. I asked 3 times and I got a response from Marty saying they dont have money to give refunds????? Im lost

Mick
 
would it be fair to return an axe fx ultra if you just recieved it under the return policy to put toward the axe 2? Im in this position but they wont give me a straight answer. I asked 3 times and I got a response from Marty saying they dont have money to give refunds????? Im lost

Mick

Return it if you want an AFX II and work out with them some kind of deal to send you an AFX II when they are ready with you paying the difference. This way, FA doesn't actually have to send you any money but a promissory note. FA would also have a new ULTRA that they can sell for full price. If it's still under the return policy time limit, they have to abide by it, money or not. That would be my advice anyways.

Lucky you.


EDIT: BTW, solo-act, great post man.
 
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I'm one of those who hadn't a clue the II was coming, so count me among the genuinely bummed out. Not because the Ultra sucks - quite the contrary. It's for the obvious reason that had I known the II was coming I would have delayed my purchase in anticipation of its release.

I sold a pile of really nice analog (and some digital) gear to afford my Ultra. I feel blindsided and disappointed. I'm a fan of Cliff and FAS but I'm one of those buyers that factored into someone's calculation as to how much alienation or ill will they were willing to generate in order to maximize Ultra sales.

I'm kind of stewing right now, I have to be honest.

I'm going to go play my Ultra to make myself feel better.
 
would it be fair to return an axe fx ultra if you just recieved it under the return policy to put toward the axe 2? Im in this position but they wont give me a straight answer. I asked 3 times and I got a response from Marty saying they dont have money to give refunds????? Im lost

Mick


I'm a little confused by this, do you mean the fourteen day return policy? If you have had it less than that time then i can't see the issue..any longer then I'm guessing it's a total no go which is the same position others are in.
 
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