UPS Insurance Claim, advice please :(

xpenno

Power User
Hi Guys,

I'm in the UK and I sold a pretty expensive guitar and preamp to a guy in Finland. We initially got in touch via a forum but decided to complete the transaction via eBay as we had never met. The transaction went through ok and I shipped the items off.

The buyer got in touch after he opened the package as the guitar had a small crack on the neck which happened during shipping. I packaged the guitar well in a big box with plenty of bubble wrap and the guitar itself was in it's hard-case which was not damaged so it looks like it was dropped hard or similar. I called UPS 2 weeks ago, to open a case and heard nothing until today when the package was returned to me. The guitar is now missing the trem cavity cover, the tremolo arm and the allen key. Also the Preamp is not in the box. I also had a letter today from UPS saying that the insurance was not valid as the packaging was not sufficient. On the next line it says that UPS were unable to inspect the packaging and I need to contact them if I can provide access to this. I called UPS and they said that I need to write to the head office if I wish to follow this up.

I'm just trying to get hold of the buyer as he seemed pretty happy with everything so I'm not sure if this is a UPS cockup of whether he has requested the package to be returned.

On top of this when I checked the tracking info on the package UPS have changed the status of the initial shipment to package refused which is a lie as the package was accepted in good condition but the buyer. In fact the buyer sent me photos of the guitar showing the damage and has also sent me messages saying that he really likes the preamp.

Does anyone have an experience of UPS' insurance and how they do business? I'll write a letter to them next week as requested and I have the original packaging here for them to inspect so I hope that everything will work out OK.

Any advice at all would be really useful :)

Thanks

Spence
 
From my experience with UPS insurance claims most end up being turned down due to what they say is bad pack job. Had this happen to me with a amp I sent. I now take pictures of the item getting packed and request that the receiver takes pictures immediately of any damage including packing. I really think the insurance is just about useless to spend too much money on
 
UPS doesn't pay claims. You could put 10 feet of absorbent foam around the object and they will claim it wasn't packed properly. Sorry, but you're SOL.
 
+1 I've never heard of UPS insurance covering anything without jumping through a bazillion hoops just for a 1% chance they might cover it. I was told at a UPS store once that UPS won't cover crap unless it's actually packaged at a UPS store, which is total BS in my book, especially when UPS is known to handle their packages like the Samsonite gorilla handles a suitcase. :p
 
Hmm..seems odd, the buyer who opened the package and took photo's obviously returned the package himself.

The missing pieces..if the box was sealed and def not tampered with when it was returned, then they were obviously not returned back into the box by the buyer.

No accusations being made, but think it through before refunding.
 
i have successfully filed/fought claims with UPS and FedEx. Their default behavior is to refuse the claim due to bad packing, in one case I showed that my packing far exceeded FedEx requirements - so they said the damage couldn't have happened during shipping because it was so well packed. Here's some tips, but be prepared to spend more in time fighting UPS than the claim is worth.

Regarding the missing parts, if UPS handled the return of the item as part of a claim - then they could have opened the box and inspected then contents and lost the items (but they wouldn't be disassembling anything). If the buyer shipped it back on his own, then UPS would have no reason to inspect the contents - the buyer has the parts, and if he did take things apart he could be responsible for the crack. If it's likely that the buyer has the parts then don't issue a full refund. If you have to, try resolving the dispute through eBay (if you have good eBay feedback then eBay can be helpful).

If the claim is for the guitar, then you can consider the guitar case as packaging (further it's Manufacturer's Packaging and an Industry Standard for of shipping protection) - if it's in the case, then the guitar is double boxed! UPS has requirements for the amount of packaging around the guitar (check your local UPS website), measure the thickness, length and width of the guitar (without the case) and compare it to the box. Forget about any claims for a damaged case, it's better to consider the case packing materials.

Photograph everything, the guitar, the box (especially any damage to the box), the padding/foam/bubble wrap. Try to correlate damage on the box to the damage on the guitar. If you have an eBay listing w/ photos that can be considered documentation of the condition before shipping.

Get a letter from the buyer stating that the damage was there when they received the guitar; keep it for now, but this might be helpful down the road if UPS claims you damaged the guitar after it was returned to you. Get the letter now, the buyer might not be interested in helping in a couple months.

Most of all, be persistent, the claims people at UPS are paid to deny the claim. It could take a couple months, but be polite and relentless. Try not to be emotional or give more info than is necessary - just keep repeating that the guitar's packing met their insurance requirements.

A note for future shipping: Take pics of the guitar before it's packed (or save the pics from an eBay listing), take pics of the guitar/case in the box showing proper padding around the case, take pics of the outside of the box. Most importantly label the box: top, bottom, front, back, right, left. A few years ago I shipped an amp and marked the box: top, bottom, front, back, left, right. I was able to prove the damage to the box matched the damage to the cabinet and FedEx paid the claim. FedEx's first response was 'insufficient padding', then 'the amp was so well packed the damage could not have happened while in FedEx custody', but with the markings on the box matching the damage to the amp's cabinet - they could no longer refute the claim.
 
Last edited:
Spence, sorry to hear this. What a bummer. Just out of curiousity from those who have experience with both--is FedEx better in this regard?
 
Thanks for the words guys esp. MaxTwang. I'll contact UPS and remain civil and hope for the best, at this point it doesn't sound too hopeful. I guess it's no different from Car or any other insurance, they make it as hard as possible to claim hoping that most people will give up. I'll update if and when I have any news.

Thanks

Spence
 
Hope all comes out in you favor for the claim. Its funny with UPS, they have no problem taking the money that is susposed to be for insurance but fight hard if you make a claim I look at it as just extra cash flow for them
 
I have only had to fight this once but did secuussfully win. I got a tip from a friend of a friend. He deals with multiple ups/fedex claims a year and wins everyone. I shipped a box of car parts worth 850 to a guy in new york. The box didn't even make it out of my state. It completely fell off the tracking grid. I filled a claim with fedex and they gave me a month of run around making me prove what was in the box and also what everything was worth, I had to send them reciepts showing how much i paid originally. After the month was over they still denied my claim. That's when I got his piece of advice, a friend who is a custom luthier told me what he does. He ships guitars all over the world and has them show up broken quite often. He told what you have to do is send them small claims paperwork filled out with your claim showing them you are ready to take them to court over the matter. After my claim got denied I sent the small claims papers to them I had my check within a week no fight from them at all.
 
FedEx was slightly easier for fighting a claim, but when they returned the amp from their inspection they put it back in the box with no padding, none at all!!!! The original damage was a cracked joint on the cabinet, after FedEx's inspection and return shipping the cabinet was broken on 2 edges and both transformers and the choke had broken off the chassis!

On a positive note the FedEx claim was a Bogner Metropolis head and even with the transformers hanging by the wires the amp still sounded incredible!!!

I don't know if it's just the local post office, but USPS is great for paying claims. A friend bought a wood carving off eBay and it was shipped in a plastic storage box with no padding. We brought the statue and plastic box to the post office and they paid the $200 claim - no questions, no hassles.
 
I don't know if it's just the local post office, but USPS is great for paying claims. A friend bought a wood carving off eBay and it was shipped in a plastic storage box with no padding. We brought the statue and plastic box to the post office and they paid the $200 claim - no questions, no hassles.

My experience with USPS is that they are just as bad, if not worse. They flat out denied to pay a claim we submitted. They gave no reason except "claim denied". I called repeatedly and they would simply hang up on me. USPS is far worse than UPS and FedEx in all regards.
 
My experience with USPS is that they are just as bad, if not worse. They flat out denied to pay a claim we submitted. They gave no reason except "claim denied". I called repeatedly and they would simply hang up on me. USPS is far worse than UPS and FedEx in all regards.

Didn't you have a meeting with these guys Cliff? If you did, I'm guessing whatever you tried didn't work. :(
 
UPS doesn't pay claims. You could put 10 feet of absorbent foam around the object and they will claim it wasn't packed properly. Sorry, but you're SOL.
I'll second that. Even when you jump through all the hoops they put in front of you, their universal statement is that the item was "improperly packed."
 
I live in a small town, so the Post Office is easy to deal with on claims. Unfortunately they're not too good at getting mail in the right box.

It's not only exact weight that USPS is strict on, I mailed a strat bridge plate last week in an standard letter sized envelope - it was returned to me postage due because the approx 2" x 4" plate "was not flexible, and therefore the envelope is a parcel".
 
My experience with USPS is that they are just as bad, if not worse. They flat out denied to pay a claim we submitted. They gave no reason except "claim denied". I called repeatedly and they would simply hang up on me. USPS is far worse than UPS and FedEx in all regards.

I concur and find USPS is unusable at a professional level. It is simply the worst service provider I have ever dealt with in any country. USPS is strictly for $6 plastic junk off ebay, no more can be trusted in their hands. I find myself in a state of shock whenever cheap-ass boneheads use USPS to send me MY expensive gear that I just bought.

My experience with Fed-Ex is in NYC is nearly flawless. They are a top-notch company at every turn. UPS is so-so. That said:

VINTAGE GUITAR PLAYERS READ UP!!! You must use UPS. Warning-Fedex does not insure expensive vintage guitars. Read for yourself:

Shipments (packages or freight) containing all or part of the following items are limited to a maximum declared value of US$1,000:

Artwork, including any work created or developed by the application of skill, taste or creative talent for sale, display or collection. This includes, but is not limited to, items (and their parts) such as paintings, drawings, vases, tapestries, limited-edition prints, fine art, statuary, sculpture and collector's items.
Film, photographic images (including photographic negatives), photographic chromes and photographic slides.
Any commodity that by its inherent nature is particularly susceptible to damage or the market value of which is particularly variable or difficult to ascertain.
Antiques, or any commodity that exhibits the style or fashion of a past era and whose history, age or rarity contributes to its value. These items include, but are not limited to, furniture, tableware and glassware.
Glassware, including, but not limited to, signs, mirrors, ceramics, porcelains, china, crystal, glass, framed glass, and any other commodity with similarly fragile qualities.
Plasma screens.
Jewelry, including, but not limited to, costume jewelry, watches and their parts, mount gems or stones (precious or semiprecious), industrial diamonds, and jewelry made of precious metal.
Furs, including, but not limited to, fur clothing, fur-trimmed clothing and fur pelts.
Precious metals, including, but not limited to, gold and silver bullion or dust, precipitates, or platinum (except as an integral part of electronic machinery).
Stocks, bonds, cash letters or cash equivalents, including, but not limited to, food stamps, postage stamps (not collectible), traveler's checks, lottery tickets, money orders, gift cards and gift certificates, prepaid calling cards (excluding those that require a code for activation), bond coupons, and bearer bonds.
Collector's items such as coins, stamps, sports cards, souvenirs and memorabilia.
Guitars and other musical instruments that are more than 20 years old, and customized or personalized musical instruments.


discussion:

Fedex Insurance Claim Limitation on Vintage Instruments in The Vintage Corner Forum
 
Hi Guys,
The buyer got in touch after he opened the package as the guitar had a small crack on the neck which happened during shipping. I packaged the guitar well in a big box with plenty of bubble wrap and the guitar itself was in it's hard-case which was not damaged so it looks like it was dropped hard or similar. I called UPS 2 weeks ago, to open a case and heard nothing until today when the package was returned to me. The guitar is now missing the trem cavity cover, the tremolo arm and the allen key. Also the Preamp is not in the box.

In fact the buyer sent me photos of the guitar showing the damage and has also sent me messages saying that he really likes the preamp.
So, the buyer claims the crack happened during shipment, and then returned it without the trem cavity cover, the arm, the allen wrench, or the preamp (which he "really likes")? Something is rotten, either with the buyer, with UPS, or both
 
Back
Top Bottom