Upgraded to Quantum from 16.01... presets sounds shitty

[RoshRoslin]

I run into this issue all the time when I'm working with clients and their AxeFx rigs.

They ask "so if I upgrade, it will sound better, right? I'm on firmware XX and I love the way my patches sound".
The answer is it will sound more accurate. Warts and all.

 

[USMC_Trev]

See the thing is, what made all those old FW versions work was a lot of workarounds - parameters that have since been removed due to redundancy, things like that. Those parameters that you used to make something sound good were a band aid on something that's been improved vastly in rev 17, 18, 19, 20 and back to 1. The improvements in modeling in the last few revs have made those workarounds obsolete, but the residual effects are still there. You have a lot of things going on in your presets that don't need to be there anymore. That's why you have to get wth the new FW and start tabula rasa.

 

[Dimebucker]

About same thoughts here always when comes to update Firmwares unfortunately ,re-tweak all presets is huge step for me also i don`t see point to do that if all was fine in past already. But one thing what i have been request few times in past ,is that FAS would give use possibility to purchase different effects and features without update whole Firmware. First thing what i would buy are those Digital numbers/values for Output Levels ,that feature for me is one of those biggest things what i would want to have inside my Axe FX II. If some point FAS would give us chance to purchase separate effects amps features that would be very nice IMO ,then you can keep your old tones and old Firmware improvements and having new features.

The is the one big conflict I struggle with every new major FW update. 'Do I upgrade and spend a lot of time re tweaking all my presets or not'. There have been so many topics about this already. I hate too waste much (valuable) time on re tweaking/repairing my presets every new FW but I also like some of the new features. Especially FX improvements and I care less for amp updates. That's the downside of having constant updates. But on the other hand I really appreciate the improvements and that the Axe is not a static unit. I guess you can't have both....

 

[chucma]

Tried again today.Mostly presets I use sound different (worse), so I'll have to find a motivation to change to Quantum and re-do all my patches.

Also, all the guitarjon Metallica tonematch patches that I love, sounds shitty too...maybe when he posts the new Quantum versions I'll make the effort, but there are really a lot of patches that I love and I'm comfortable with that sounds worse in Quantum, so I'm gonna stay on 16.01 for a while...

Sounds like you have not understood all the feedback the guys have been giving you in your thread. To put it very bluntly, if you have taken the decision to upgrade 4 major releases (FW16 - Quantum) then you also need to have made the decision that you will need to rebuild some presets. If you do not want to redo any of your presets then please do not update. I updated to Quantum and found that it was a lot faster to dial in amazing tones for my presets, and the results were so much better so I was happy to review my presets and decide whether to update them or not (funnily most of mine did not need updating - I use mostly the AC30).

Basically, if you have left it for this long and you are not interested in doing any manual work to your presets then please do not update and subsequently post angry threads when it is you who does not want to put the effort in. I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying the facts to hopefully help you to make a decision.

 

[Bodde]

what i have been request few times in past ,is that FAS would give use possibility to purchase different effects and features without update whole Firmware.

This is not a bad idea. Most of the times I only want the fx updates. The thing that is the most 'responsible' for the retweaking and change of sound of your presets is the amp and cab block (an maybe drives).
But on the other hand it would make things more confusing. Also with the preset exchange with other users . Say you are on 'amp FW 16' and 'fx FW 19' it would be hard to load in other users presets because the firmwares don't match.

 

[zenaxe]

Sounds like you have not understood all the feedback the guys have been giving you in your thread. To put it very bluntly, if you have taken the decision to upgrade 4 major releases (FW16 - Quantum) then you also need to have made the decision that you will need to rebuild some presets. If you do not want to redo any of your presets then please do not update. I updated to Quantum and found that it was a lot faster to dial in amazing tones for my presets, and the results were so much better so I was happy to review my presets and decide whether to update them or not (funnily most of mine did not need updating - I use mostly the AC30).

Basically, if you have left it for this long and you are not interested in doing any manual work to your presets then please do not update and subsequently post angry threads when it is you who does not want to put the effort in. I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying the facts to hopefully help you to make a decision.

Quoted for truth. If your presets had sounded unilaterally great crossing four major revs, I would have been disappointed because that implies all these updates are smoke and mirrors. If you have no interest in investing the time and energy involved in moving forward, by all means, don't.

This is not a bad idea. Most of the times I only want the fx updates. The thing that is the most 'responsible' for the retweaking and change of sound of your presets is the amp and cab block (an maybe drives).
But on the other hand it would make things more confusing. Also with the preset exchange with other users . Say you are on 'amp FW 16' and 'fx FW 19' it would be hard to load in other users presets because the firmwares don't match.

It's a dumb/naive idea. Partitioning out the FW would be a support and debug nightmare for FAS; that could very well cause instability for all users and would only serve what is likely an extremely small minority who do not want to follow along with amp modeling improvements and it would be a trainwreck for the Axe-Edit team, etc. Backward compatibility can be an albatross around a systems neck especially one that improves at a breakneck pace. IMHO.

 

[SteelEdge]

Do you use Axe-Edit to create/manage presets? If so, you can easily A/B your old or imported presets then clear & create a new preset next to it taking notes on each preset where the parameters were before. I think you are going to find that from 16, which was and is an amazing FW, you will need less of the blocks to get your ideal sound. For example COMP, PEQ or FILTER blocks needed previously to obtain the ideal preset have been cleaned up in a lot of ways by the G3 & Quantum firmwares.

My recommendation is to start small and work in what your ears think they need. Try a simple config first like a Friedman or USA Lead AMP with a 4x12 V30 or other High-Res CAB to see if you can get THAT tone you're seeking much more easily.

Just a thought homey.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I totally agree with you, did that yesterday and compared parameters pre/post Quantum in some of my favourite presets, but they didn't changed.

 

[SteelEdge]

Sounds like you have not understood all the feedback the guys have been giving you in your thread. To put it very bluntly, if you have taken the decision to upgrade 4 major releases (FW16 - Quantum) then you also need to have made the decision that you will need to rebuild some presets. If you do not want to redo any of your presets then please do not update. I updated to Quantum and found that it was a lot faster to dial in amazing tones for my presets, and the results were so much better so I was happy to review my presets and decide whether to update them or not (funnily most of mine did not need updating - I use mostly the AC30).

Basically, if you have left it for this long and you are not interested in doing any manual work to your presets then please do not update and subsequently post angry threads when it is you who does not want to put the effort in. I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying the facts to hopefully help you to make a decision.

I have totally understood all the feedback.

I'm a Fractal fan even before day one, when a bunch of guitar freaks were waiting for Cliff to release the first Axe Fx Standard.I was the official first owner of an Axe Fx in Spain (my friend piing, original Axe Fx Forum creator / admin had one paralleled imported before me) and I've been a Standard / Ultra / II user, so I know a little about how this little box works.And believe me, I LOVE Fractal and the Axe Fx.I was offered to be an endorser here in Spain and I've posted in most spanish forums great reviews about Fractal products.

My point is that I'm not angry or posting any angry posts, don't know why you think I'm angry, not at all..... Just had interest about anyone that experienced the same than me when upgradind and had a quick solution (don't know, like unlinking global blocks, main output adjustment, etc...)

I know that I have to re-do al my patches and that firmware updating requires work,what was I was saying is that right now, It doesn't deserve that effort to ME (because my personal situation / use of the Axe).

That's all, was trying to find an easy solution for the issue, I know re-doing all my patches is the easy and right solution, but I'm not angry at all, actually, I'm as happy as I've always been with my Axe.

 

[electronpirate]

I know that I have to re-do all my patches and that firmware updating requires work,what was I was saying is that right now, It doesn't deserve that effort to ME (because my personal situation / use of the Axe).

That's all, was trying to find an easy solution for the issue, I know re-doing all my patches is the easy and right solution, but I'm not angry at all, actually, I'm as happy as I've always been with my Axe.

Yes, for all the comments in this thread, this is what needs to happen. It might or might not be painful once you get the hang of where the things you like are in the FW.

When you have time, you'll be amazed at the new developments. But for now, if you're happy with what you have, go with it!

(It is nice to have these choices...great times for guitarists.)

</last word>
R

 

[digitalwaveform]

Sounds like you have not understood all the feedback the guys have been giving you in your thread. To put it very bluntly, if you have taken the decision to upgrade 4 major releases (FW16 - Quantum) then you also need to have made the decision that you will need to rebuild some presets. If you do not want to redo any of your presets then please do not update. I updated to Quantum and found that it was a lot faster to dial in amazing tones for my presets, and the results were so much better so I was happy to review my presets and decide whether to update them or not (funnily most of mine did not need updating - I use mostly the AC30).

Basically, if you have left it for this long and you are not interested in doing any manual work to your presets then please do not update and subsequently post angry threads when it is you who does not want to put the effort in. I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying the facts to hopefully help you to make a decision.

Wow. So let me get this straight, the release notes say, 'If you upgrade multiple firmware versions, you must rebuild your presets."?

Oh and if you're reluctant to do it, the forum will all pile on and make you feel like shit.

This attitude is precisely why some players are down on this forum and down on firmware upgrades that 'require' you to start over.

I would rather have a root canal than rebuild my patches entirely from scratch.

Maybe some of you guys are can dial up 4 to 5 patches that cover every nuance from scratch in an afternoon and go play 4-5 gigs in a row and have it all just be perfect...good for you!!

I can't.

No piece of software that I use professionally requires me to remix a song because of a new version, or re-edit the audio, or re-edit a picture.

I'm busy booking shows and learning material, traveling to gigs, running sound, dealing with clubs, hell, performing! I don't need or want a ground zero reboot every time a new upgrade comes out. And throngs of fanboys on this board are never going to get me to agree that it is simply standard operating procedure that I have to start fresh every time I want bug fixes or new features. I bought the unit for it's stability and upgradability. They are not mutually exclusive to one another. No where in the marketing material or manuals does it say this is consistent requirement. The whole, 'no one is putting a gun to your head to upgrade' is such a bullshit cop out too. Who doesn't want quality to improve? Who doesn't want better stability? Bug fixes? It is not a requirement in the software industry that upgrading requires one to change their workflow or to start over. It just isn't. I could site countless examples from the pieces of software I use to make a living that are meticulous about their upgrades that don't hose you simply cause you want a new rev that fixes bugs or adds some new shit. It's like Adobe saying, download the latest Lightroom, but BTW, you'll have to re-edit every photo you've ever edited and start over. They'd get crucified. Sure, occasionally, a leap has to be made to get to the next level. (different system requirements, RAM etc) But it shouldn't be expected and taken as the norm. It absolutely should not. It should be considered very carefully.

I love my AXE-FX, I had 3 of them at one point. I've spend a lot of hard earned money on them, and I've gigged a shit ton on them. But as someone who's had to deal with shit on stage go wrong quite a number of times from upgrades, it sucks. But the argument of, ' if you don't want issues, then don't upgrade." is simply wrong.
If it was right, then we'd still all be on vers 1.01, wouldn't we???

 

[chris]

No piece of software that I use professionally requires me to remix a song because of a new version, or re-edit the audio, or re-edit a picture.

...

It is not a requirement in the software industry that upgrading requires one to change their workflow or to start over. It just isn't.

This isn't the software industry. It's a customized audio processor. A Firmware update is more similar to an OS update, and lately we've been having updates that are more like Windows 3.1 to 95, to XP, etc. There have been major changes to the core function of the unit - Amp Modeling.

So yes, tone will change. If you know this, I don't see how you can complain when choosing to do an update. There are many professionals touring and recording who are still on FW 9, 12, 16, you name it.

It is what it is. If you want to update, your tone might change. Treat it like getting a new piece of hardware with the latest features and it decision might be easier to make.

 

[PRSfreak4]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I totally agree with you, did that yesterday and compared parameters pre/post Quantum in some of my favourite presets, but they didn't changed.

No worries mate, sorry to hear that. Did you try just a basic AMP + CAB straight shunt from I>O with resetting the blocks then tweaking to your ears? I'm starting to wonder if you need a system reset... #HateToSayIt... Sorry you're having issue mang.

 

[J.C]

Rebuilding patches from scratch shouldn't be a big deal if you know what you are doing. It's more about getting the amp sim right with whatever IR you use, and undoing any tweaks you thought you needed but don't anymore.

 

[Stratoblaster]

The forum announcement of Quantum (and lack of release notes) sum this all up perfectly....pretend you've just got a new AFX delivered and you're trying it out for the first time. Go forward and don't look back...

 

[USMC_Trev]

,

About same thoughts here always when comes to update Firmwares unfortunately ,re-tweak all presets is huge step for me also i don`t see point to do that if all was fine in past already. But one thing what i have been request few times in past ,is that FAS would give use possibility to purchase different effects and features without update whole Firmware. First thing what i would buy are those Digital numbers/values for Output Levels ,that feature for me is one of those biggest things what i would want to have inside my Axe FX II. If some point FAS would give us chance to purchase separate effects amps features that would be very nice IMO ,then you can keep your old tones and old Firmware improvements and having new features.

You can't think of what's going on inside the Axe as a bunch of different programs running at the same time like a bunch of different pedals on the floor that are on or off. The firmware is one big computer program running all the time. The things that you choose to put in your grid are choices about what parts of the overall program are doing what to your final and when, and that's what affects your overall sound. There is no separate delay program or pitch program or amp program that could be updated independently. If it was that way th box would be way bigger and cost way way more. My flight sim rig has a 3.2Gb CPU with water cooling block, a GTX-780 GPU and 32Gb of really fast memory and I doubt it could handle that kind of workload. The software running on those two DSP chips is designed to be very efficient and getting more so all the time, especially since 1.01. The software is integrated just like the circuit is integrated. They could never be updated or not updated individually. That said the effects rately change from one firmware to another. Most of the changes are amp and ir related.

 

[Solarfire]

You obviously don’t have the slightest clue about software; your analogies have about as much in common as shit and gold do. The software in the Axe is mainly a collection of algorithms that emulate the behavior of electronic components and circuits with a user Interface. If you change components in a real amp it will more or less change the tone, feel or response, same for doing so in the software algorithms. Do yourself a favor, before you start ranting about a subject X, get some insight to the subject at hand; otherwise, as in this case, it will let you look embarrassingly ignorant.

Some just prefer to see the glass as half empty instead of half full.

PS I’m a software and electronics engineer..

Wow. So let me get this straight, the release notes say, 'If you upgrade multiple firmware versions, you must rebuild your presets."?

Oh and if you're reluctant to do it, the forum will all pile on and make you feel like shit.

This attitude is precisely why some players are down on this forum and down on firmware upgrades that 'require' you to start over.

I would rather have a root canal than rebuild my patches entirely from scratch.

Maybe some of you guys are can dial up 4 to 5 patches that cover every nuance from scratch in an afternoon and go play 4-5 gigs in a row and have it all just be perfect...good for you!!

I can't.

No piece of software that I use professionally requires me to remix a song because of a new version, or re-edit the audio, or re-edit a picture.

I'm busy booking shows and learning material, traveling to gigs, running sound, dealing with clubs, hell, performing! I don't need or want a ground zero reboot every time a new upgrade comes out. And throngs of fanboys on this board are never going to get me to agree that it is simply standard operating procedure that I have to start fresh every time I want bug fixes or new features. I bought the unit for it's stability and upgradability. They are not mutually exclusive to one another. No where in the marketing material or manuals does it say this is consistent requirement. The whole, 'no one is putting a gun to your head to upgrade' is such a bullshit cop out too. Who doesn't want quality to improve? Who doesn't want better stability? Bug fixes? It is not a requirement in the software industry that upgrading requires one to change their workflow or to start over. It just isn't. I could site countless examples from the pieces of software I use to make a living that are meticulous about their upgrades that don't hose you simply cause you want a new rev that fixes bugs or adds some new shit. It's like Adobe saying, download the latest Lightroom, but BTW, you'll have to re-edit every photo you've ever edited and start over. They'd get crucified. Sure, occasionally, a leap has to be made to get to the next level. (different system requirements, RAM etc) But it shouldn't be expected and taken as the norm. It absolutely should not. It should be considered very carefully.

I love my AXE-FX, I had 3 of them at one point. I've spend a lot of hard earned money on them, and I've gigged a shit ton on them. But as someone who's had to deal with shit on stage go wrong quite a number of times from upgrades, it sucks. But the argument of, ' if you don't want issues, then don't upgrade." is simply wrong.
If it was right, then we'd still all be on vers 1.01, wouldn't we???

 

[USMC_Trev]

You obviously don’t have the slightest clue about software; your analogies have about as much in common as shit and gold do. The software in the Axe is mainly a collection of algorithms that emulate the behavior of electronic components and circuits with a user Interface. If you change components in a real amp it will more or less change the tone, feel or response, same for doing so in the software algorithms. Do yourself a favor, before you start ranting about a subject X, get some insight to the subject at hand; otherwise, as in this case, it will let you look embarrassingly ignorant.

Some just prefer to see the glass as half empty instead of half full.

PS I’m a software and electronics engineer..

Thanks on behalf of everyone for your constructive contribution to the Internet. Very helpful post.

 

[zenaxe]

Wow. So let me get this straight, the release notes say, 'If you upgrade multiple firmware versions, you must rebuild your presets."?

Correct.
From the AxeFx II Firmware Update Guide on support.fractalaudio.com

Can I skip versions to go from a very old firmware version to a much newer one?

You can always upgrade from any version to any other version. When you skip like this it is recommended that you also read the release notes for all interim versions, all of which are included with every firmware release.

Skipping to a much newer version also makes it far more important to understand that updates can change the sound of existing presets. Release notes provide more information. Also remember that Factory Presets are updated for major firmware changes, and may require a separate update of their own.

So, that is one pretty explicit, if more gently stated , reminder. It also gets discussed here every single major update. I am certain MANY release notes have stated it, and it is probably documented elsewhere (Twiki, etc) since it is so commonly discussed but one obvious reference is probably enough.

Oh and if you're reluctant to do it, the forum will all pile on and make you feel like shit.

Reread the title of this thread. I think that was poor judgment on the OPs part and certainly set an aggressive tone for the discussion. That, combined with what at least appeared to be an unrealistic expectation on the OPs part combined with ya know, the internet, and yeah not gonna be a virtual hug festival.

FWIW, I can understand being taken aback by the tone of the thread but I think it is non-surprising given how it was initiated.

Your contribution/analogy was not helpful and is WAY offbase, too, though, IMHO, so maybe it should just be a cease fire on all sides since the OP has clarified his understanding of the preset redial requirement. And as usual for flame wars it is much ado about nothing.

 

[jdosher]

I have totally understood all the feedback.

My point is that I'm not angry or posting any angry posts, don't know why you think I'm angry, not at all.....

Because people seem to get upset if someone points out things they don't like about the Axe-Fx.

 

[chucma]

I have totally understood all the feedback.

I'm a Fractal fan even before day one, when a bunch of guitar freaks were waiting for Cliff to release the first Axe Fx Standard.I was the official first owner of an Axe Fx in Spain (my friend piing, original Axe Fx Forum creator / admin had one paralleled imported before me) and I've been a Standard / Ultra / II user, so I know a little about how this little box works.And believe me, I LOVE Fractal and the Axe Fx.I was offered to be an endorser here in Spain and I've posted in most spanish forums great reviews about Fractal products.

My point is that I'm not angry or posting any angry posts, don't know why you think I'm angry, not at all..... Just had interest about anyone that experienced the same than me when upgradind and had a quick solution (don't know, like unlinking global blocks, main output adjustment, etc...)

I know that I have to re-do al my patches and that firmware updating requires work,what was I was saying is that right now, It doesn't deserve that effort to ME (because my personal situation / use of the Axe).

That's all, was trying to find an easy solution for the issue, I know re-doing all my patches is the easy and right solution, but I'm not angry at all, actually, I'm as happy as I've always been with my Axe.

Apologies I had the impression from your starting post that you were angry. I think your wording led me (and others) to believe that but I understand you better now.

I think your best bet is to try again what you have already done, i.e. load up QFW1.1 and tweak some of your existing patches and get a feel for how long they take to tweak. Maybe rebuild a couple to experiment? Just take a day off work and treat yourself to some guitar time. Also, try recording some tracks with your old patches for comparison. Worst case, if you still don't like then just roll 'on back as you did before!