updated to 19 beta, BB PRE SUPER LOUD!!!

You are a cheeky chap Cliff! Suggesting that the burgeoning boutique overdrive pedal craze is dressed in the emporer's new clothes. I have to admit that I have been sucked in by a couple of boutique pedals, I still have them in fact, and yes I agree, my initial reaction is, this just sounds like a Tubescreamer but has a fancy paint job and whacky name and a higher price tag, it sure sounded great in that Youtube video though.
 
Yeah swan sorry there seems to be the seasoned guys on some of these forums that have nothing better to do!!! Or maybe they think that Cliff
might name a preset after them.....Now thats funny right there!!







QUOTE=Swan1;1205153]Not sure why when someone mentions a possible bug or provides feedback to a beta the response is often to belittle or deny the feedback. The whole idea of a community is that people can provide feedback to help make the product better. Not like FAS hasn't let a bug slip by them that if it wasn't for someone in the community it would have gone unnoticed and unfixed.[/QUOTE]
 
I admittedly also had the same issue that this guy is having. I turned the level and gain WAY down and it didn't help. It was loud and had an insane amount of hum. I ended up having to just turn off the drive block entirely and not use it on the patch because nothing was working. I also deleted the block and made a new one to maybe reset it or something? and it didn't work. I haven't really had problems with anything else since then though and maybe it was really since beta 2, I didn't really play much between releases. I don't know, everything's cool now. On a positive note, 19 sounds amazing! The Try Axes patch with the drive and delay blocks engaged is probably my new favorite lead tone. Shits great
 
Works just like the real thing here. Tons of gain (60 dB), too much IMO but I didn't design it. The company claims 30 dB of gain but apparently they don't understand how to compute voltage gain in dB. Most of these pedal "designers" don't really know much about electronics. They take a tube screamer, tinker with some values and then pay lots of money for endorsements and videos so they can justify selling $10 worth of parts for $250.

Boom! <3
 
I am on the road and don't have much time but will address a couple of points

Well for one thing, its a beta release, and Cliff even mentions there may be bugs. No one is forced to try it after all, yet people take an attitude that they are owed something. Was the guy politely mentioning a possible bug ? No, he started his own thread just to exclaim that its "unusable" to him.
It might come down to why we think FAS releases beta versions. While there is some showing off of new features, as a business owner of a company that does some (but not a lot) of programming, we provide early access to some beta testers to help us find bugs but more importantly, as a reality check on our (my?) "cleverness" and I can't tell you the number of times that something I thought was great in development turns out to be a bust with the beta testers and sends us back to the drawing board. And while it is often hard on my ego, honest beta feedback is a big deal for us and I always welcome it and suspect that FAS does too (given how many issues that get raised here by users make their way into final versions - the 2 tap vs averaged tempo is something that comes to mind that has been really helpful for me.)

Why not take 5 minutes and skip the dedicated thread which is at the very top of this page and see its been addressed before, or if not, post it there ?
I don't know but people have an emotional connection to their guitars and the Axe and are not all going to do things as you do.

You've posted 26 times, your probably don't spend as much time on these forums as some folks do, but when you see the same behavior, and same questions (sometimes posted literally right below a sticky thread about the exact same issue) it gets a bit old.
It is true that I am pretty busy and don't hang around here as much as you but I do check in a couple of times a week. If the stresses of reading a post are too much for you, maybe you could take the occasional break? Go play more!

I've got a flight to catch so got to go and will give you the last word.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all of the feedback. Unfortunately this was one of those "I'm packing up for my gig RIGHT NOW, load in is in an hour and I just updated to the newest beta and my main clean patch which uses the BB Pre (which I used to dig, a little more girth and less attack than the RAT) is now EXPLODING when kick on LOL"... I dropped the level to something ridiculously low like 10% and even had to drop the mix to around 50% (which changed the tone BTW) and by that time the RAT was the better choice for the patch.
Just ran out of time and did not have directions for "resetting blocks" but tried a number of different things. Now that I have more time I'll dig a little deeper, sorry for creating a new post. Appreciated the heads up and quick help!
 
Not sure why when someone mentions a possible bug or provides feedback to a beta the response is often to belittle or deny the feedback. The whole idea of a community is that people can provide feedback to help make the product better. Not like FAS hasn't let a bug slip by them that if it wasn't for someone in the community it would have gone unnoticed and unfixed.

Apparently when you have over 1000 posts you have the right to belittle other less frequent posters. It's an Internet thing I guess. Generally this form is pretty good, but every once and a while...
 
Unfortunately this was one of those "I'm packing up for my gig RIGHT NOW, load in is in an hour and I just updated to the newest beta and my main clean patch which uses the BB Pre (which I used to dig, a little more girth and less attack than the RAT) is now EXPLODING when kick on LOL"...

I swear there's a lesson here...
 
Boy, that'll teach the OP to ask for help on the forum.

I have to agree with him. I have the real pedal also and the modeled one is far too loud. Rolled back to the 18 so I can play since I use the BB as a boost for leads.
 
Boy, that'll teach the OP to ask for help on the forum.

I have to agree with him. I have the real pedal also and the modeled one is far too loud. Rolled back to the 18 so I can play since I use the BB as a boost for leads.

It was stated plainly in the release notes for the beta that pedals without the G3 in the name would have their tapers on their controls off as they hadn't been given any attention yet. There's only so much you can do to encourage people to read before they act.

I mean, from my perspective here, the repeated lesson from public betas is maybe they're not the best idea. The average user's ability to test and report accurately is not great. An expanded beta user pool might be better.
 
I A-B tested the new BB Preamp model with the real thing in the Axe's fx loop and here's what I found personally:

Also, full disclosure, I'm using an Axe-Fx Mark II and found the fx loop, even with just one short cable running straight from Output 2 to Input 2, to add a bit of noise to the signal overall, so I added a very light noise gate after the FX Loop block to even the playing field (which worked wonderfully, by the way).

Anyway, the characteristics of the real BB Pre's distortion and tone compared to the model is absolutely identical with the exception that the real pedal's bass knob had very slightly more oomph and affect at extreme settings (all the way clockwise). Otherwise, the character of the distortion was identical at all equivalent Gain knob settings, and the Treble knobs on the model and real thing also behaved identically.

Also, it was easy to turn the Level knob down to very acceptable levels on both the model and real thing. The BB Pre's Level knob in the Drive block doesn't start out at 30 db or anything. It's very easy to set it so that it's actually quieter than the signal you feed it, with plenty of room to decrease it further from there, in case anybody is wondering. There's nothing forcing anybody to max the level knob on the thing.


Another thing I'll say though, and this is great btw... I changed the Clip Type to the new Variable mode and actually liked that sound a lot more than the "real" pedal itself, lol. It was smoother.

I admittedly also had the same issue that this guy is having. I turned the level and gain WAY down and it didn't help. It was loud and had an insane amount of hum. I ended up having to just turn off the drive block entirely and not use it on the patch because nothing was working. I also deleted the block and made a new one to maybe reset it or something? and it didn't work. I haven't really had problems with anything else since then though and maybe it was really since beta 2, I didn't really play much between releases. I don't know, everything's cool now. On a positive note, 19 sounds amazing! The Try Axes patch with the drive and delay blocks engaged is probably my new favorite lead tone. Shits great

Something was either set incorrectly internally or you were playing a strat with single coils right next to a stage light. Resetting the Drive block and playing with the Level parameter really should resolve the issue.
 
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imo, there is an excessive amount of level with a few of the drives. i realize it's a beta and they're not all done yet, just stating my observation. turning down to 1 (or so) in order to get the right amount of boost/drive really seems peculiar, i'd rather have unity at 5
 
It was stated plainly in the release notes for the beta that pedals without the G3 in the name would have their tapers on their controls off as they hadn't been given any attention yet. There's only so much you can do to encourage people to read before they act.

I mean, from my perspective here, the repeated lesson from public betas is maybe they're not the best idea. The average user's ability to test and report accurately is not great. An expanded beta user pool might be better.

It was stated in Beta 1 release as I use the BB as a boost and was prepared for a little weirdness. The beta releases are great but it can't be stated enough to back up etc...... By the way, 19 beta2 kills! JCM 800 + tube screamer = tone of the Gods.
 
It was stated plainly in the release notes for the beta that pedals without the G3 in the name would have their tapers on their controls off as they hadn't been given any attention yet. There's only so much you can do to encourage people to read before they act.

I mean, from my perspective here, the repeated lesson from public betas is maybe they're not the best idea. The average user's ability to test and report accurately is not great. An expanded beta user pool might be better.

So what does this mean exactly? "Tapers turned off"?
Does that mean that some drives that have not been "G3'd" we should expect to be very much louder than they used to be?
I have NEVER set the level knob of any drives in the II to less than 4.5-5. So, now having 1 (or less) be the "new normal" for SOME drives in the new firmware (and even though this is BETA it actually sounds to me like Cliff is saying -- this is the way the REAL pedal works, this is the way it's SUPPOSED to be -- so should I really expect this to be addressed once out of beta?
I'm just confused that's all... are you saying reading the release notes assume we should be expecting to start dropping SOME drive output levels to almost zero and start dialing back the mix knob from 100% down to 50%?
I'm running 19 beta 2 BTW.
 
So what does this mean exactly? "Tapers turned off"?

Iaresee didn't say "Tapers turned off". He said that it was predicted that the tapers on the controls would be off. By "off", I'm confident that he means "not consistent with the behavior of the knobs on the original pedals themselves."

Backing up a little, for explanation. Potentiometers (the actual controls underneath the "knobs") can't be described simply by their lowest and highest point. To accurately duplicate the performance of a pot, it's necessary to measure it's value at, say, 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, etc, etc… in other words, at every spot between full-on and full-off. Believe it or not, those intermediate values vary HUGELY from one type of pot to another. Those differences are intentional, based on what the pot is intended for… and that difference spectrum is called it's "taper". (There's audio-taper pots, linear taper pots, etc… all quite different from one another).

Different amps, drives, FX devices, etc use different taper pots. So, even if someone measures the full-on and full-off values, one doesn't know what "12 o'clock" means on a particular device, until one makes an exact analysis of each and every pot. Only THEN will 9 o'clock on the stomp box correlate with 9 o'clock on the AxeFx's drive model. Until that point, it's very possible that 9 o'clock of one pot might be equivalent to 3 o'clock of another.

Cliff hasn't done that part yet. He's said as much, on many occasions. He assumes that people who are willing to try out a beta version of his new software will read and understand his descriptions of the "partial" nature of the beta release, and at least factor that in, before pointing out discrepancies that he's already warned about.

That is what Iaresee is alluding to in his speculation that perhaps public betas aren't "the best idea". Unfortunately, it's a worthwhile point.
 
So what does this mean exactly? "Tapers turned off"?
Not "turned off", "off" -- as in "not correct" -- some might be linear where they should be logarithmic for example.
Does that mean that some drives that have not been "G3'd" we should expect to be very much louder than they used to be?
It means you should expect them to behave unexpectedly. Full stop.
 
Works just like the real thing here. Tons of gain (60 dB), too much IMO but I didn't design it. The company claims 30 dB of gain but apparently they don't understand how to compute voltage gain in dB. Most of these pedal "designers" don't really know much about electronics. They take a tube screamer, tinker with some values and then pay lots of money for endorsements and videos so they can justify selling $10 worth of parts for $250.

I'm no expert but to add fuel to this fire, Im amazed how many pedals are out there now. I and am certainly glad Im not going down THAT rabbit hole of trying to find the perfect pedal line(s) at $250 a pop, for a little less fuzz a little more this, a bit more swirl. Its insane, and the all topped off with goofy names, and dizzying colors, countless comparisons and claims. They are often like all the craft beers, fun to look at and try but rarely become a staple. I'll stick to the axe, the best investment in guitar music Ive ever made.
 
Apparently when you have over 1000 posts you have the right to belittle other less frequent posters. It's an Internet thing I guess. Generally this form is pretty good, but every once and a while...

I'll chime in and then lets leave this alone:

I think the point was that a minimal amount of 'answer my own question' is not required, but it is a courtesy to the board. The comment about multiple threads on the same issue (USB change anyone?) is valid; many people would rather post than just look through the threads or do a simple search. It does make the board cumbersome, and takes away from people who have a unique issue and would like all of our help.

To the OP: Yeah, loading beta FW 5 minutes before loading up for a gig...um.

As far as the problem goes, if resetting the block doesn't help, not sure what's going on there...I have not seen that much of an issue here.

R
 
to add to facts, not opinion, i finally got around to trying out the BB Pre in 19 beta 2.

it was a bit louder than some other drives so i reduced the Level parameter and all was right. in fact, the Micro Boost drive actually made my outputs clip, not the BB pre. the TS808 Mod seemed to be the same loudness as the BB Pre as well.

so i'm really not sure what others are experiencing here. did you go to a preset that already had the BB Pre loaded and it was loud? or did you change to it and it was loud?

funny thing, i've never used this drive before, and now that i tried it, i really like it!
 
Different strokes for different folks.

I've been playing around with a LOT of the settings all weekend. I'm playing with FW 19b2. I WAS using Axe-Edit to adjust my settings (and yes, I know.... don't go there...). I've found that, to me, resetting to the default block settings on the front panel of the AFX seems to clear things out better than using Axe-Edit - duh. Cliff, and everyone else has said that you may get various results, if you use Axe-Edit with the betas - so I'm throwing this out there for anyone who may want to try it. I had continued using Axe-Edit knowing that I may bork something, and kept lots of backups, just in case. It "apparently" was working, but seemed to work "better" when I started using the front panel, instead.

To lay the groundwork, my presets are mostly compressor-wah-drive-amp-cab-PEQ-vol-chorus-flange-rotary-delay-verb-looper. 99% of the time, only the amp-cab-dly-verb are on; the rest are there for when I need them.

I've been resetting amps to default settings, and balancing levels, with the Axe front face Utility button.

Then I've been resetting the drives, mostly trying to stick with G3'ed drives, knowing that these will change somewhat, when the new FW drops. Once I zero in a drive that works best, I'm leveling again, with the drive off, and drive on, using the front panel.

Then I'm resetting choruses, and going through the same routine, setting levels off and on, with the Utility button.

All this is from the front panel. Let me say this again: from the front panel. I did not expect this, but my settings seem to be somewhat clearing out better, using the front panel than Axe-Edit. I'm still using it (Axe-Edit) to switch presets on/off, etc, when I practice, and have had no issues, other than what I've stated.

Now then...I've found that for some amps I need to boost the BB Pre, and for some I need to lower it; for most amps, the Micro Boost is almost perfect, although I had to adjust it a little for a couple of amps. So I'm saying this to 'splain that the drives will react differently in levels of drive and volume, depending on your amp, and your chain, and placement within that chain. It's not a cut-and-dry one-size fits all thing. Some "pedals" hit the front of the amp at the preamp section, and some react with the power section; some hit the tone section - a lot of things need to be considered before we make a blanket statement that one of the pedals is too hot or not hot enough, or whatever.

Just like in the "old days", everything depends on everything else in thine chain.
 
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