• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Understanding All the Different Gain Controls

jshirkey

Experienced
If most of the factory presets are clipping, then they are louder than your own presets, which aren't clipping. So we're back to the little black level knob to make up the volume, because you'll have to do that anyway when you switch back to your own presets.
In a word, no. I couldn't care less about the factory presets--aside from the fact that they are unusable for me in a lot of cases. If I want to try them out (for whatever reason...mostly to sample the amps that are modeled), then I need to turn something down so that they don't clip. That something would be the Level knob in the amp block.
 

Rex

Legend!
In a word, no. I couldn't care less about the factory presets--aside from the fact that they are unusable for me in a lot of cases. If I want to try them out (for whatever reason...mostly to sample the amps that are modeled), then I need to turn something down so that they don't clip. That something would be the Level knob in the amp block.
Yes. I was answering your question on how to make up the lost volume.
 

Dendrite

Inspired
Good thread, and perfect timing for me. I've been noticing I'm getting pretty significant variations in my levels going to the board, and I think it's all related to my presets not being well finished (what noob programmed those patches?? Oh wait- me...). So I've been fixing them.
To keep the tones similar, I've ended up using the Ax8Edit output mixer that's present on all presets. With this, I have the VU meter open on the Ax8 and aim for the zero line by adjusting the output main level fader up or down, usually +/- up to 3 dB. Once it's reasonably zeroed on VU, the level sent to the board should be more consistent and my tone hasn't been altered by messing with amp volumes, drive levels, etc in the patch. And I don't have to do wholesale level changes with the black knob on front of Ax8.
It seems to be working... Is this reasonable or am I unknowingly screwing myself?
 

Rex

Legend!
...I have the VU meter open on the Ax8 and aim for the zero line by adjusting the output main level fader up or down, usually +/- up to 3 dB. Is this reasonable or am I unknowingly screwing myself?
That's reasonable. But if you do it that way, you'll have to do it for every scene in a preset. Changing the Amp block level changes it for all scenes that use that Amp block. And it doesn't change your tone.
 

chris

Legend!
That's reasonable. But if you do it that way, you'll have to do it for every scene in a preset. Changing the Amp block level changes it for all scenes that use that Amp block. And it doesn't change your tone.
This.

That's exactly why on the VU meter screen you can adjust the Amp Level parameter using the A knob :)
 

Billbill

Power User
The amp block in the Axe-Fx has a variety of gain controls that change depending upon the amp model selected. These controls are:
Input Drive
Input Trim
Overdrive
Master Volume

These various controls are located at fixed points in the virtual amplifier circuit as follows:




Input Drive:
This is the modeled amp's gain, drive, volume, etc. control. It adjusts the attenuation at the input to the amplifier gain stages after the input buffer. On a Marshall Plexi, for example it is the "Loudness" control. On a typical Fender amp it is the "Volume" control. On many high-gain amps it is called either "Gain" or "Drive".

On a real amp this is implemented using a variable resistor called a potentiometer. Many amps include a "bright cap" on the drive control which is a small value capacitor placed across the terminals of the pot that bleeds treble frequencies through as the gain is reduced. Sometimes this bright cap is switchable via a switch on the amp. Sometimes it is fixed.

Input Trim:
The Input Trim control allows you to adjust the input attenuation without changing the frequency response. If you turn down the Input Drive and the model has a bright cap the amp will get brighter. Now you may like the brighter tone but wish there were more gain. Input Trim allows you to increase the gain without changing the tone. Conversely you may like the darker tone with Input Drive set high but wish there were less gain. In this case you can lower Input Trim.

Most real amps do not possess an Input Trim control. Instead they usually have a switch or two input jacks that select between a high-gain and low-gain input. Almost invariably the difference between these two jacks is 6 dB. All the Axe-Fx amps are modeled using the high-gain input or switch position (if any). To simulate the low-gain input set the Input Trim to 0.5 which is 6 dB less.

Overdrive:
Some amps possess an attenuation control between the later gain stages. Examples of the are the Mesa/Boogie Mark series, Dumble ODS and others. This control allows the user to vary the gain staging. The Input Drive can be turned up and the Overdrive turned down so that the earlier stages distort more and the later stages distort less and vice-versa.

Master Volume:
The Master Volume (MV) controls how much signal level is sent to the power amp. Many vintage amps have no MV control and the power amp runs "wide open". Modern amps often get their distortion from the preamp and the Master Volume then allows the user to control the volume of the amp.

The Master Volume in the Axe-Fx II, as well as on real amps, is probably the singular most powerful control in the amp block. As the Master Volume is increased the virtual power amp begins to distort. The virtual power amp also begins to sag and all sorts of beautiful magic occurs. The tone becomes more focused, the dynamic response changes, the note attack is accentuated, etc.

The key to crafting the ultimate tone involves understanding these various controls and learning how to balance them.
Sorry but yes, another nOOb question here.
I'm loving my new AxeFx2XL+ but i haven't really been able to get rid of this weird background fizziness that is in my distorted tone. I created said patches for 8 string metal guitar and I don't really use THAT much OD! I'm trying to learn how to blend two amps and two Cabs for a more unique, tailored sound without the use of any drive blocks. I just cant clean this digital fizz out! Every time I try to lower say, the OD I end up not having enough punch! Then I'll try to lower another drive input or adjust the GEQ which gets rid of the fizz but something else that i need is missing be it that punch, treble ect. If I want the treble back I turn up treble or mess with the dynamics and boom, there's the fizziness again!!! Ugh what am I doing wrong!?!?!
 

Rex

Legend!
Sorry but yes, another nOOb question here.
I'm loving my new AxeFx2XL+ but i haven't really been able to get rid of this weird background fizziness that is in my distorted tone. I created said patches for 8 string metal guitar and I don't really use THAT much OD! I'm trying to learn how to blend two amps and two Cabs for a more unique, tailored sound without the use of any drive blocks. I just cant clean this digital fizz out! Every time I try to lower say, the OD I end up not having enough punch! Then I'll try to lower another drive input or adjust the GEQ which gets rid of the fizz but something else that i need is missing be it that punch, treble ect. If I want the treble back I turn up treble or mess with the dynamics and boom, there's the fizziness again!!! Ugh what am I doing wrong!?!?!
1) That "digital" fizziness is present int real tube amps, too. Crank a plexi and you'll see what I mean.

2) Try a different cab.
 

Billbill

Power User
1) That "digital" fizziness is present int real tube amps, too. Crank a plexi and you'll see what I mean.

2) Try a different cab.
Well yeah I guess it is present in tube amps too I only said digital because obviously it's a digital unit...a unit that sounds better than tube amps but that's a highly subjective argument.
 

Noriuky73

Power User
Probably in a home studio recording environment you will get better tones from AxFx2 than a miked amp ...
You will have more options and control without having to spend tons of money on hardware and mics plus greatly sounding room treatments . This is it
And I must say compare this fizziness in a mix and not alone , sometimes it is necessary to jump out in a dense mix .
Anyway is already a wise move to hicut the cab to get rid of unwanted brilliance when is already listened in mix .
Very difficult to judge alone .
Sometimes bug cuts from 5 to 8 khz make all the difference .
Good luck
 

Sig

New Member
The amp block in the Axe-Fx has a variety of gain controls that change depending upon the amp model selected. These controls are:
Input Drive
Input Trim
Overdrive
Master Volume

These various controls are located at fixed points in the virtual amplifier circuit as follows:




Input Drive:
This is the modeled amp's gain, drive, volume, etc. control. It adjusts the attenuation at the input to the amplifier gain stages after the input buffer. On a Marshall Plexi, for example it is the "Loudness" control. On a typical Fender amp it is the "Volume" control. On many high-gain amps it is called either "Gain" or "Drive".

On a real amp this is implemented using a variable resistor called a potentiometer. Many amps include a "bright cap" on the drive control which is a small value capacitor placed across the terminals of the pot that bleeds treble frequencies through as the gain is reduced. Sometimes this bright cap is switchable via a switch on the amp. Sometimes it is fixed.

Input Trim:
The Input Trim control allows you to adjust the input attenuation without changing the frequency response. If you turn down the Input Drive and the model has a bright cap the amp will get brighter. Now you may like the brighter tone but wish there were more gain. Input Trim allows you to increase the gain without changing the tone. Conversely you may like the darker tone with Input Drive set high but wish there were less gain. In this case you can lower Input Trim.

Most real amps do not possess an Input Trim control. Instead they usually have a switch or two input jacks that select between a high-gain and low-gain input. Almost invariably the difference between these two jacks is 6 dB. All the Axe-Fx amps are modeled using the high-gain input or switch position (if any). To simulate the low-gain input set the Input Trim to 0.5 which is 6 dB less.

Overdrive:
Some amps possess an attenuation control between the later gain stages. Examples of the are the Mesa/Boogie Mark series, Dumble ODS and others. This control allows the user to vary the gain staging. The Input Drive can be turned up and the Overdrive turned down so that the earlier stages distort more and the later stages distort less and vice-versa.

Master Volume:
The Master Volume (MV) controls how much signal level is sent to the power amp. Many vintage amps have no MV control and the power amp runs "wide open". Modern amps often get their distortion from the preamp and the Master Volume then allows the user to control the volume of the amp.

The Master Volume in the Axe-Fx II, as well as on real amps, is probably the singular most powerful control in the amp block. As the Master Volume is increased the virtual power amp begins to distort. The virtual power amp also begins to sag and all sorts of beautiful magic occurs. The tone becomes more focused, the dynamic response changes, the note attack is accentuated, etc.

The key to crafting the ultimate tone involves understanding these various controls and learning how to balance them.
I just got a axe fxll. I just came to this forum to learn how to use it. And I am learning a lot. Fast. I am also starting to understand how my Egnater works. I didn’t know I was going to get more information on how a tube amp works in a way that makes sense than any other source as of yet. Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Rex

Legend!
I just got a axe fxll. I just came to this forum to learn how to use it. And I am learning a lot. Fast. I am also starting to understand how my Egnater works. I didn’t know I was going to get more information on how a tube amp works in a way that makes sense than any other source as of yet. Thanks.
Welcome to the funhouse, @Sig !

If you dig through the forum, you'll learn more about how real tube amps work than most tube amp owners know. :)
 
The amp block in the Axe-Fx has a variety of gain controls that change depending upon the amp model selected. These controls are:
Input Drive
Input Trim
Overdrive
Master Volume

These various controls are located at fixed points in the virtual amplifier circuit as follows:




Input Drive:
This is the modeled amp's gain, drive, volume, etc. control. It adjusts the attenuation at the input to the amplifier gain stages after the input buffer. On a Marshall Plexi, for example it is the "Loudness" control. On a typical Fender amp it is the "Volume" control. On many high-gain amps it is called either "Gain" or "Drive".

On a real amp this is implemented using a variable resistor called a potentiometer. Many amps include a "bright cap" on the drive control which is a small value capacitor placed across the terminals of the pot that bleeds treble frequencies through as the gain is reduced. Sometimes this bright cap is switchable via a switch on the amp. Sometimes it is fixed.

Input Trim:
The Input Trim control allows you to adjust the input attenuation without changing the frequency response. If you turn down the Input Drive and the model has a bright cap the amp will get brighter. Now you may like the brighter tone but wish there were more gain. Input Trim allows you to increase the gain without changing the tone. Conversely you may like the darker tone with Input Drive set high but wish there were less gain. In this case you can lower Input Trim.

Most real amps do not possess an Input Trim control. Instead they usually have a switch or two input jacks that select between a high-gain and low-gain input. Almost invariably the difference between these two jacks is 6 dB. All the Axe-Fx amps are modeled using the high-gain input or switch position (if any). To simulate the low-gain input set the Input Trim to 0.5 which is 6 dB less.

Overdrive:
Some amps possess an attenuation control between the later gain stages. Examples of the are the Mesa/Boogie Mark series, Dumble ODS and others. This control allows the user to vary the gain staging. The Input Drive can be turned up and the Overdrive turned down so that the earlier stages distort more and the later stages distort less and vice-versa.

Master Volume:
The Master Volume (MV) controls how much signal level is sent to the power amp. Many vintage amps have no MV control and the power amp runs "wide open". Modern amps often get their distortion from the preamp and the Master Volume then allows the user to control the volume of the amp.

The Master Volume in the Axe-Fx II, as well as on real amps, is probably the singular most powerful control in the amp block. As the Master Volume is increased the virtual power amp begins to distort. The virtual power amp also begins to sag and all sorts of beautiful magic occurs. The tone becomes more focused, the dynamic response changes, the note attack is accentuated, etc.

The key to crafting the ultimate tone involves understanding these various controls and learning how to balance them.
I'm trying to grasp an understanding of the power amp section of the axe fx. During practice, I went to the power amp tab on the axe edit and changed MV location from Pre-Pi to Post and I heard a dramatic increase of volume. Although I liked it, I felt that the tone sounded colored after a while. With everything you mention in the basic set up in the amp Controls, could you help explain the power amo controls including the use of the of the MV location with MV Cap control.
 

bbbeardsley

Member
The amp block in the Axe-Fx has a variety of gain controls that change depending upon the amp model selected. These controls are:
Input Drive
Input Trim
Overdrive
Master Volume

These various controls are located at fixed points in the virtual amplifier circuit as follows:




Input Drive:
This is the modeled amp's gain, drive, volume, etc. control. It adjusts the attenuation at the input to the amplifier gain stages after the input buffer. On a Marshall Plexi, for example it is the "Loudness" control. On a typical Fender amp it is the "Volume" control. On many high-gain amps it is called either "Gain" or "Drive".

On a real amp this is implemented using a variable resistor called a potentiometer. Many amps include a "bright cap" on the drive control which is a small value capacitor placed across the terminals of the pot that bleeds treble frequencies through as the gain is reduced. Sometimes this bright cap is switchable via a switch on the amp. Sometimes it is fixed.

Input Trim:
The Input Trim control allows you to adjust the input attenuation without changing the frequency response. If you turn down the Input Drive and the model has a bright cap the amp will get brighter. Now you may like the brighter tone but wish there were more gain. Input Trim allows you to increase the gain without changing the tone. Conversely you may like the darker tone with Input Drive set high but wish there were less gain. In this case you can lower Input Trim.

Most real amps do not possess an Input Trim control. Instead they usually have a switch or two input jacks that select between a high-gain and low-gain input. Almost invariably the difference between these two jacks is 6 dB. All the Axe-Fx amps are modeled using the high-gain input or switch position (if any). To simulate the low-gain input set the Input Trim to 0.5 which is 6 dB less.

Overdrive:
Some amps possess an attenuation control between the later gain stages. Examples of the are the Mesa/Boogie Mark series, Dumble ODS and others. This control allows the user to vary the gain staging. The Input Drive can be turned up and the Overdrive turned down so that the earlier stages distort more and the later stages distort less and vice-versa.

Master Volume:
The Master Volume (MV) controls how much signal level is sent to the power amp. Many vintage amps have no MV control and the power amp runs "wide open". Modern amps often get their distortion from the preamp and the Master Volume then allows the user to control the volume of the amp.

The Master Volume in the Axe-Fx II, as well as on real amps, is probably the singular most powerful control in the amp block. As the Master Volume is increased the virtual power amp begins to distort. The virtual power amp also begins to sag and all sorts of beautiful magic occurs. The tone becomes more focused, the dynamic response changes, the note attack is accentuated, etc.

The key to crafting the ultimate tone involves understanding these various controls and learning how to balance them.
I never change any tone controls except the normal ones found on real amps and have always wonder about the input trim. This is simply wonderful and now I'm going to embark on the endless journey of tweaking the axe fx III and it's infinite possibilities. I'm completely clueless in the beyond the basic area of amp tweaking. Is there info I can read up on why one would change the many parameters found in the axe fx III
 

Jozsef Kiss

Inspired
The amp block in the Axe-Fx has a variety of gain controls that change depending upon the amp model selected. These controls are:
Input Drive
Input Trim
Overdrive
Master Volume

These various controls are located at fixed points in the virtual amplifier circuit as follows:




Input Drive:
This is the modeled amp's gain, drive, volume, etc. control. It adjusts the attenuation at the input to the amplifier gain stages after the input buffer. On a Marshall Plexi, for example it is the "Loudness" control. On a typical Fender amp it is the "Volume" control. On many high-gain amps it is called either "Gain" or "Drive".

On a real amp this is implemented using a variable resistor called a potentiometer. Many amps include a "bright cap" on the drive control which is a small value capacitor placed across the terminals of the pot that bleeds treble frequencies through as the gain is reduced. Sometimes this bright cap is switchable via a switch on the amp. Sometimes it is fixed.

Input Trim:
The Input Trim control allows you to adjust the input attenuation without changing the frequency response. If you turn down the Input Drive and the model has a bright cap the amp will get brighter. Now you may like the brighter tone but wish there were more gain. Input Trim allows you to increase the gain without changing the tone. Conversely you may like the darker tone with Input Drive set high but wish there were less gain. In this case you can lower Input Trim.

Most real amps do not possess an Input Trim control. Instead they usually have a switch or two input jacks that select between a high-gain and low-gain input. Almost invariably the difference between these two jacks is 6 dB. All the Axe-Fx amps are modeled using the high-gain input or switch position (if any). To simulate the low-gain input set the Input Trim to 0.5 which is 6 dB less.

Overdrive:
Some amps possess an attenuation control between the later gain stages. Examples of the are the Mesa/Boogie Mark series, Dumble ODS and others. This control allows the user to vary the gain staging. The Input Drive can be turned up and the Overdrive turned down so that the earlier stages distort more and the later stages distort less and vice-versa.

Master Volume:
The Master Volume (MV) controls how much signal level is sent to the power amp. Many vintage amps have no MV control and the power amp runs "wide open". Modern amps often get their distortion from the preamp and the Master Volume then allows the user to control the volume of the amp.

The Master Volume in the Axe-Fx II, as well as on real amps, is probably the singular most powerful control in the amp block. As the Master Volume is increased the virtual power amp begins to distort. The virtual power amp also begins to sag and all sorts of beautiful magic occurs. The tone becomes more focused, the dynamic response changes, the note attack is accentuated, etc.

The key to crafting the ultimate tone involves understanding these various controls and learning how to balance them.
Sorry for the stupid question!
Where can I find the "Input Buffer" function?
 
Top Bottom