Ultra Owner considering the Axe 2... once bitten, twice shy.

zenaxe

zenaxe

Fractal Fanatic
Okay gang, I know this is basically a FAQ but I'd like to start another "Help me sell myself an Axe 2 thread".

I guess mine does have a slight twist, since I am pretty concerned with the product's development cycle... I'm one of the Ultra owners who bought shortly before the II came out. I got to experience the excitement of exactly one firmware update. :-/ It was incredibly frustrating on an emotional level to sell my spouse on getting the money budgeted to get the the best modeler money could buy and kill the GAS for a while; and three or four months later, having the second best modeler money could buy, discontinued/no future updates, and the worst case of GAS in my life. It has been painful to hear all the excitement here, while watching the Std/Ultra forum die a slow death. It has been a PITA GASsing for two years when I hear about all the cool new features and upgrades...

I understand that it is completely unreasonable to expect a hardware manufacturer to stand still. I get that some things will never really be "done" or that there will always be some new feature or technology to play with. I also understand that most technology manufacturers have good reason not to discuss detailed product road maps with customers. So, I know that there aren't any guarantees about tech longevity, etc.

But, that said, if I drop $2K on an Axe 2 and a short time later, the III comes out, I will likely have a GAS brain aneurysm or something. LOL.

So, you see, it's a health issue. ;)

Anyway, here I am, two years in on the Axe 2, I have finally gotten spousal sign off on an upgrade. The USB, loadable cabs, new models, tone matching, new axe edit (this is critical), sound amazingly right on target for me. I love the Axe work flow, routing, and FX, so I am not considering Kemper very seriously. The II's design sounds incredibly long range/strategic (to me) and I know that DSP/modeling is much slower cycle time than computers/CPUs/cell phones and this thing has two deciated DSPs... so that all sounds good...

But now that I have credit card in hand, I am getting cold feet. Again, I understand there aren't definitive answers but some of the net-talk about the Axe 2 being "maxed out" on its processor on the amp modeling side and new DSPs coupled with competition with Kemper has me a bit scared of a repeat.

So, this go round, I would really like to make sure I have done my due diligence in buying a new unit in a time frame where there is some reasonable expectation that I can likely expect it to have some development life left (I was hoping for about 1/2 of the product's supported life or so). Anyway let me know what you guys think. I have been out of the AxeFx update game for a while but is there anything we're hitting significant limits on? Any obvious things likely to appear in a new unit that the two can't do? Guys that have been around forever, what was the life cycle of the Std/Ultra? New buyers, what is your take? Did you have any similar considerations regarding the support/development window, did you consider another rig strategy, Etc? (And of course any manufacturer level info would be awesome LOL...).

I know it is ultimately my decision and the tech game is what it is; but I'd love your guys' input.
 
For me, in order to get the most out of gear, I have to use it regularly.

So if you buy the II and use it a lot, then no matter what comes next, you will have gotten something out of it.

If you are buying it but aren't really going to use it much, then I think, the sting of what comes next will be bigger.
 
I just got a II, I love it but I got an Ultra basically a month after the II came out. I am always going to keep it around because the tones I get thru it are awesome as all hell! That being said, I will have no life for the coming weeks because all of my time shall be devoted to the II!
 
barhrecords said:
For me, in order to get the most out of gear, I have to use it regularly.

So if you buy the II and use it a lot, then no matter what comes next, you will have gotten something out of it.

If you are buying it but aren't really going to use it much, then I think, the sting of what comes next will be bigger.
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Exactly. I don't think there's anything superceding the Axe II any time soon. Also, you can still probably get 2/3 of the cost of the Axe II back out of the Ultra which is friggin' amazing considering that it's 5 years old now. The II has reached amazing levels. It's not going to suck 5 years from now. It'll still sound fantastic.

That said, if the "gotta have the newest" vibe exceeds the use value in importance, wait, but my guess is that you'll be waiting at least a year and maybe more like 2. I don't think the II is near its end of life development moment. The level of DSP it uses still vastly exceeds the competition. I'm sure Cliff is drooling over what he could do with even more DSP and internal memory, but it's not like DSP of this quality got much cheaper in the way that many other computer related things do.
 
barhrecords said:
For me, in order to get the most out of gear, I have to use it regularly.

So if you buy the II and use it a lot, then no matter what comes next, you will have gotten something out of it.

If you are buying it but aren't really going to use it much, then I think, the sting of what comes next will be bigger.
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I use the Ultra daily. But I generally go to gear forums daily where people are talking about how awesome the II is, too, which probably feeds some of the GAS. :D I love the idea of having NFD (New firmware days) and was bummed that I didn't get many with the Ultra. Thanks so much for your input and perspective so far guys.
 
My experience has been a bit different, i still believe that the ULTRA is an incredible unit that still has many years of great sounds in it. Yes you get a real sounding amp with the Axe II, but you have to work harder to get some of the best polished tones the ULTRA has.

I cant say the Axe II was love at first sight, but more of a developing relationship that may en up in marriage. Right now, we are seeing other people! :p.

The ULTRA was love at first sight! sill remember the first day i heard it and how blown i was with the sound.
 
I think you always run the risk of buying into a product line that has it's further development curtailed or cut-off as soon as you acquire it. While I admit the concept of firmware upgrades added to the reasons I choose to buy an Axe-Fx, for me it was pretty far down on the list of reasons. No further updates would have just felt like ever other manufacturers product. Yes, I do hope it staves off obsolescence to some degree, I really think it's at a point now where even if FAS came out with a new model and stopped firmware updates on the II, you would find me extremely pleased with the results I get out of the unit just as it sits today for a LONG LONG time. I could never say that about other modelers I've used.
 
I guess you should just ask yourself what the ultra isn't doing for you that the 2 will! I like you, bought the ultra 2 months prior to the axe2 release. I was bumed at first but after all this time I Still Love the tones I get. I was just at the PRS experience tour this past weekend and got to listen to and try all the new prs guitars and amps. The amps were warm and sweet sounding but I came home plugged my guitar into the ultra and there it was. So i'd say if the ultra isn't quite as close to the real amp your looking for or if tone matching is something you need then get the 2 if not maybe consider saving your cash.

PS.. I struggle with wanting to buy the 2 all the time as well:) Even if I get the 2 or eventual 3, I will keep the ultra because I love the tones I made in it.
 
Hey XenAxe,

If I said the Axe II only costs $900 would you buy one right away? I bet you would. Even if the Axe III does come out, you would get at least 1/2 if not more for the II for quite a while, so its not all gone money. I had the same hesitancy. But then I said screw it when I got a sudden small chunk of cash and I splurged, got the II, sold the Ultra in a day for $1300 (I bought the Axe II for $2200, a difference of $900) and I never looked back. Everything costs money. You will recoup the money quickly, you won't be able to get back the time you miss playing with an amazing guitar processor. This thing is changing the face of the guitar world. Sell a guitar... Do what you need to do. This is that important...IMHO. :)

Joe
 
I am in the same boat. I have been an ultra user for a long time and love it but will be ordering the II within the week. The main reason for going to the II for me is for better "feel" and it is my understanding that the II is more organic in its tone. What I mean by organic is the amount of change within the tone that exist - from how you hit the string to how it decays. Also, I want a more raw amp sound and controls that respond like the amp that is modeled. The other features like usb are also nice but secondary to tone and feel for me.

Can anyone comment on this aspect of the II? Does it truly feel better than the ultra and as good as a real tube amp? I am sure that it matches the modeled amps in static tone but does it truly match them in terms of feel? When you crank a tube amp up it becomes alive - the is this connection between the output of the amp through the air and back to the guitar. Part of that is volume but part of it is the amp and guitar. I miss that connection and hope that the II can get me there - like my old marshall does. Thanks for any input.
 
I did also buy the Ultra right before the II got released... only a couple of weeks before, actually.

I was quite gutted at first, since the II had features I wished the Ultra had, like USB, headphones out. But these were fixable, I ended up buying an audio interface.
The other + of the II were more amps, better sounding amps, etc... Did I need all these extra? Not really, I was quite happy and impressed with what the Ultra was offering.

If I had the money now to upgrade to the II, I'd certainly wait. First, because I haven't played with the II so I don't know what I'm missing compared to the Ultra, and secondly because Cliff might just be a releasing a successor to the II soon. We're already on firmware v11, that's the last firmware the Ultra got. Does not prove anything, sure, but we all know Cliff has been working on something for a while now, so we might well see something released any time. And I'd probably be tempted if that new thing had something uniquely different to offer compared to the Ultra. something that makes me feel I'm playing with a real amp.

But in the end, man, the decision is all in your hands. Get it if you want it... for the good reasons. Not just because others have it and you feel you want the latest.
 
I was in the same boat as you about 2 months ago - well I didn't have an Ultra but was thinking along the same lines - "what if a new model comes out?" All I can say is I've never had a tone as great as this and as versatile as this (Axe Fx II + Matrix GT1000FX + 2x Q12's). My previous rig was an Engl E-580 (which is a pretty dam great sounding and versatile preamp +$2K) into a Mesa 2:90 and G-Major 2 into an Engl V30 2x12 cab - that rig is now collecting dust.
 
Let's be honest: the only people who can truly say whether there will or won't be an Axe-Fx III released in the next week, the next month, or the next year are people who've signed a nondisclosure agreement with Fractal. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.
 
You could always try to find or should I say wait for the deal on a used II this way you don't take the full hit on deprecation.
 
I asked the same question when I decided to buy 6 months ago. I decided that the longer I wait, the longer I'm missing out. I never owned the Ultra previously though so for me it was a completely new experience. I'm not really sure of the all differences between the Ultra and the II, but I know that if they stopped updating the II today I'll be happily using it for many years to come.
 
I also had the same sort of concerns. I didnt own a ULTRA but was concerned that i would but the axe 2 and then a week later something new would come out. I read enough posts to realise that i could be waiting a long time for something else to come along so followed my heart and bought the axe fx 2 and it was the best decision i could have made. I dont know how it compares to the ULTA but it certainly does not feel like a digital modeler in the way that a HD500 or a guitar rig 5 does. Attacking a string makes a different note and feel to when its struck not as hard. Its very organic to me and just makes me want to play my guitar all the time.
 
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