ultimate djent tones

clarky

Axe-Master
note sure where to post this..
it's not a preset or specifically Axe-II related
a pal of mine was asking me about djent and prog metal tones..
whilst I play some reasonably heavy stuff, I'm not really a djent type myself..
so I could only make a few reasonable guesses..

so.. in the interests of science, I thought I'd start a thread about this specific tone type...
amounts of gain.. eq.. number of tracks recorded.. production.. etc..
find out from those of you that live and breathe this stuff
 
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I'm a fan of "djent". Here's some things that work for me

Not a lot of gain, the lest the better. I hate muddy sounds
Tubescreamer - Drive low setting, tone all the way up
Noise gates- I usually use too of them. one pres and one post

Recording
-I double track each side (two hard and two in between)
-Background ambient
-Polyrhythms or odd time signatures
-Syncopation of notes and grooves
-the use of 9th chords
-Sometimes electronic beats

Sounds like the stereotype of djent but honestly; this is what's going on haha.
 
Tight low end, loads of mids.
Gates and compressors are your friends.

Personally I only double track. 100% left and right. cleans, ambients, leads go centre.
 
I surfed around to listen to some stuff…
it does appeal to the progger in me.. all the goofing around with time sigs etc..

one thing struck me though was how much low seemed to have been cut from the tone

so what's the deal with the gates.. pre and post??
as in… why 2?
 
one thing struck me though was how much low seemed to have been cut from the tone

so what's the deal with the gates.. pre and post??
as in… why 2?

Low-end makes things less tight haha. And the double gates make it so that you can stop on a dime. I like using the input gate to tighten things up ever so slightly and then using a gate after the cab block with the key set to input. A lot of guys are making it sound pretty unnatural though with the extra DAW editing, quantizing everything to the grid and chopping up all the guitars and bass.
 
hmmmm interesting…
I started on this topic to help a pal that was asking…

although this is not really a home game for me [I'm more prog rock than metal, but I do like it to get quite heavy from time to time] I may experiment with some of this for myself…
I have a 7-string tuned a whole step down.. this gives me a nice low A to hang out on..
I have to say though I don't like the 7th string much..
it lost load of tension so I popped a 62 on there.. got the tension back, but it feels a bit clunky.. and huge.. lol..

I'm now wondering if the next film / game / library piece I get involved with that requires something on the loud side might have me thinking a little in this direction..
pastures new are always fun
this could be a hoot...
 
Periphery made their presets available a while back, that would probably be the best starting point.
 
I can't play djent-stuff, but what I realised (again) today was how important the choice of picks is. I tried to play some fast palm-muted stuff on the low B-string, and there was a major difference in tone and feel when I changed between a rather thick pick with a "slippery" tip (ex. Dunlop Ultex Jazz III John Petrucci) and a thinner Dunlop Tortex 0.88 mm. I'm not saying you should use a specific type of picks for "djent", but it is worth trying different models.
 
some interesting stuff here…
and I agree about the picks.. not just for Djent, but for speed picking in general..
you need rigidity, don't dig in too deep and as little movement across the string as you can get away with..

so…
how's about we make this thread a repository / knowledge-base for all things Djent / prog metal..
presets / tone choices / technique / ideas / experiences / recording and production etc..

I'm not new to prog, screwy time sigs, unusual 'out-there' chord progressions, etc… but I am new to some of this stuff..
we all learn together...
 
I'm sorry i can't upload the patch...i don't have an interface with working midi. My focusrite saffire liquid 56 keeps giving me bad checksum error.

I'm happy to give you a breakdown of the patch though (i would prefer this because this way you learn more rather than just getting the patch and not knowing how you got there lol)

First i use a compressor. Relatively fast attack so dial the knob to around 7-8. Fast release, but a little slower than the attack so it doesn't distort. Pull the threshold down to about -30dB depending on how hard you drive the input on the axe...pull it back a little. Then the level i have set at about 8dB. This really helps when getting those big 6 string chords to ring out clearly.

So next would be the Drive pedal, most importantly turn the drive knob all the way down to 0. Get the tone knob set between 6 and 8 and level and mix can be full.

The high and low cut can be left to default but if you want to clean up the bottom end a little more, just turn up the low cut between 400 and 600Hz. This gets rid of some of the 'flubbiness'. In the drive EQ, leave everything at noon, but feel free to boost the mids by 3-4dB, set the mid frequency between 1200 and 1500Hz. Now most people suggest boosting these frequencies without knowing why. In a nutshell it is because the core of a guitar tone is between 200 and 2000Hz. The reason people boost around 1400Hz is because around this area the mid-range sounds the sweetest and this is where a lot of your pick attack/definition shines through. Sorry if you didn't want to know that but at least you do now.

Next I use a gate, again this is preference but i usually have mine pretty tight....take the threshold to between -45 and -30. Fast attack, so anything between 1 and 5 ms. Turn the hold right down to 10ms. And always have the release a little slower than the attack just so the signal doesn't distort. So i usually go between 20 and 30 ms. Ratio is between 3 and 5.

Now onto the amp,

Firstly go to the second page in the amp block, leave the depth at noon but here is where it changes and this is something i never used to do but now i do it all the time with distortion patches. Turn the damp control right down, i started doing this after reading a long post on these forums about what it actually does....i cant quote it but i know it sounds a tonne better!

Take the sag up between 3 and 5, this compresses the amp a little more and gives it a more 'spongy' sound. It feels a little more organic to me. The Master always keep between 3 and 4 on distorted amps, that is something the fractal guys suggested in the very beginning and i've always stuck by it. Turning the master right up on clean or low gain patches definitely works a treat but NOT high gain.

Bass and treble can stay around noon, have the bright switch on depending on your guitar and be a little generous with the mids, so between 6 and 7.

Most importantly, for that big high gain sound that you hear on recordings, it is double tracked at least and tracked with low gain to keep it tight. So between 2 and 4 and everything will become a lot more responsive, cleaner and defined particularly on big chords....it also allows you to dig in so your distortion can still be relatively dynamic.

Now on the really technical page of the amp block, firstly take the low cut up around 100Hz, cleans up the bottom end, makes it a lot tighter and allows the bass gutiar to have its rightful space.

I always boost the power tube bias more than default, so around 0.650. It just sounds a lot fuller to me with it turned up.

Take the HF resonance down to about 3, this stops some of the awful ringing around 2 and 3k on the higher notes particularly in big chords.

Lastly set the speaker res frequency to 85Hz if you are using the ownhammer cab, it is a V30 speaker and that particular speaker's resonant frequency is around 75Hz. It is recommended to set it higher according to a big post by scott peterson a few months back on this topic and there were many calculations that proved this was the best way to set it. As well as this, it actually sounds right and stops the really resonant notes on low strings and cause huge peaks on your pre-amp/DAW.

On that dream theater recording i used the sm57 W F 5 impulse, clearly labeled in the folder when you download them.

The Last thing in the chain is a PEQ. Now this is used mainly for live purposes and sometimes studio if i dont want to post-process them.

I set a block at 70Hz just to make sure the bottom end is clean and tight. I usually pull down by about 1.5dB at 2000Hz, because this is one of the most sensitive frequencies to the human ear. There is a nick-name for it but i cant remember it! The final thing is i set another block at the end and roll off at 11K just so there are know really high frequencies occupying that area. It is also because a real cabinet naturally starts to roll off between 8 and 9K. So leaving it at 11K on the axe fx just lets some of that extra 'air' through.

Hope that covers it all haha

Anyway, to me the most important thing out of all that is using the gain sparingly and the cabinet impulse....if you haven't already checked out the free ownhammer beta impulses (bogner v30 cab i think) then do it because honestly, they are the best impulses i've ever heard and i can't wait for the full release!

From the man himself.
 
What does this mean? That's totally new to me.
Very interested.

The sidechain input on the gate can really help tighten up high gain guitars. Most modern compressors/gates have a sidechain or key input.

Here is a screen shot of what I mean (the selected block is the second gate/expander):

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In a very basic sense, the sidechain is what your gate is "hearing". So when you select Input 1 as the Sidechain Select, you are telling the gate to "listen" to the signal at the very input of the axe fx, rather than the signal coming into its main input. Essentially, whatever you select as the sidechain input is what the gate listens to, regardless of where you place it in you layout. This allows you to control the signal at the main input with the sidechain signal.

At the bottom where it says sidechain select, set this to input. Then place your gate AFTER your amp block, but BEFORE your reverb and delay.

Its all about taking advantage of dynamic range. When your guitar signal goes through a high gain amp, the dynamic range becomes much smaller then that of your clean input signal. So it naturally becomes harder for the gate to close quickly if you place it after the amp, because the dynamic range has been greatly condensed. BUT, if you can allow the gate to see the input signal instead using the sidechain input, you can place the gate AFTER the amp block and get much tighter gating than just using an input gate.

This is a very similar idea to what the ISP Decimator G-Spot does.
 
That's what I'd hoped it was doing, That is cool as hell and remedies an issue I've been fighting for a while!
Didn't know the gate block was capable of that.

Thanks heaps for sharing :D
 
haaa.. now this thread is really starting to get fun….

and…

AAAAHHHHH ! ! ! !.. I'm in the studio working on a session..
but I really want to get out the 7-string and start goofing around… lol..
 
here's a thought…
as with all styles of music.. it all starts with the player, the instrument and how it's set up..

we all know that Djentlemen like to tune low
here's the thing though… strings - thickness, tension and tone..

tuning thin strings low kills the tension and make the string react slower.. not good for those fast palm muted quads and sextuplets
however…
thick strings pull the tension back, but become clumsy to play.. and thick strings kill the top end..
Djentlemen like top end.. top end = attack and definition when it comes to all those fast palm muted quads and sextuplets..

so I see that there are opposing things going on in terms of behaviour vs needs..
there has to be a middle ground string gauge for given drop / down tunings [on 6 / 7 and 8 strings]

my 7-string tuned concert is nailed: Ernie Ball Hybrid 9's with a .58 for the low B
my 6-strings tuned to D standard are nailed too: Ernie Ball Power Slinky and swap out the 5th for a .40 and the 6th for a .50
then they feel like "Hybrid 9 and a smidge" 's but in D standard
My 7-string in D standard [with a low A] just ain't doing it..
.58 just didn't work - way too slack
wasn't so sure about the .60 - still a little slack but sounded ok
trying a .62 right now, liking the tension, not liking the thickness or the tone [it's a little dark]

I'm considering going back to the .60
 
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