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Implemented "Uglier" compressor algorithms

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
@FractalAudio I can get almost all the way there with the Dynamicomp. The compression on the signal when you're playing notes is basically indistiguishable between the Ross and the Dynamicomp model for me now.

The only trick I can't match is the makeup gain the Ross does as the input signal fades out The Ross tries to keep the output volume consistent (and injects a bunch of that noise as it does it) in a very aggressive manner.

As a result the held note, as it fades out, gets a much bigger volume boost through the Ross as it fades than the Dyanamicomp model provides.

I was considering attaching an envelope or ADSR to the output level on the comp block but that's not ideal as I can't make the source for these controllers the input to the block.

Is there some other approach I can take to get that makeup gain part of the Ross in the magic box?
 

Rex

Legend!
@FractalAudio I can get almost all the way there with the Dynamicomp. The compression on the signal when you're playing notes is basically indistiguishable between the Ross and the Dynamicomp model for me now.

The only trick I can't match is the makeup gain the Ross does as the input signal fades out The Ross tries to keep the output volume consistent (and injects a bunch of that noise as it does it) in a very aggressive manner.

As a result the held note, as it fades out, gets a much bigger volume boost through the Ross as it fades than the Dyanamicomp model provides.

I was considering attaching an envelope or ADSR to the output level on the comp block but that's not ideal as I can't make the source for these controllers the input to the block.

Is there some other approach I can take to get that makeup gain part of the Ross in the magic box?
Have you tried jacking up Ratio?
 
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Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
Talking out me bum, untested, but how about a big boost in front of it? Compression should keep the level of the initial attack from going up a lot, but as the signal fades out, that extra input signal will keep it in the working range of the conpressor longer. In theory, maybe.
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
Hands you tried jacking up Ratio?
Yup.

Screen Shot 2021-10-13 at 9.09.56 PM.png

This sounds and feels exactly like Ross when you're playing. Just doesn't do the makeup gain thing on fade out.

Talking out me bum, untested, but how about a big boost in front of it? Compression should keep the level of the initial attack from going up a lot, but as the signal fades out, that extra input signal will keep it in the working range of the conpressor longer. In theory, maybe.

I can try that but I'm a touch skeptical it'll do the makeup gain thing the Ross does.
 
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Rex

Legend!
Yup.

View attachment 90200

This sounds and feels exactly like Ross when you're playing. Just doesn't do the makeup gain thing on fade out.
Help me understand. In an earlier post, you described added gain as the signal fades, which is pretty much the definition of compression. You also spoke of makeup gain, which is a fixed amount of gain that makes up for the fact that compressors are gain-reduction devices with reduced average level. I'm not sure which of these things you mean.

If you mean makeup gain, you can accomplish the same thing by bumping up Level.

If you mean that you're not getting enough compression on the tails, then either

1) The compression ratio is too low (is the Compression parameter equivalent to that?), or

2) The block is coming out of compression too early (you can fix that by either lowering the threshold or setting a slower release time — or both).
 

Bodde

Fractal Fanatic
Yes, I agree with the wish. I had the AnalogMan Bi-CompRosser. Really liked it. I tried hard to get that same Ross sound out of the Axe fx Compressor block but I couldn't do it. It's too polite I think and the more squashy country/funk type compressor sound are harder to achieve (at least for me). I was actually thinking of buying a compressor pedal again, like the Cali 76 or new Empress compressor or something. But I am following this topic so hopefully this can save me some money.
 
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iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
A very random thought: would it be possible to expose controls for adjusting the envelope follower's response in the compressor block? I think the difference between the pedal and the model is down to how that envelope evolves relative to the input signal.

Clips tonight when I clear my work day to show the difference.
 

Admin M@

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
A very random thought: would it be possible to expose controls for adjusting the envelope follower's response in the compressor block? I think the difference between the pedal and the model is down to how that envelope evolves relative to the input signal.

Clips tonight when I clear my work day to show the difference.

That's what THRESHOLD, ATTACK and RELEASE are, right?
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
Clips! It goes Ross --> Dynamicomp --> Ross (L) + Dynamicomp (R). It was all reamp with the same take. Nothing was live.



Here you can see the decay in the waveforms on the tracks:

Screen Shot 2021-10-14 at 9.35.21 PM.png

At that 32.2 beat marker you can hear the Ross swell to bring the level up -- I can't make the Dynamicomp (or any model) do that. It also appears to have a much slower release time.

My Dynamicomp settings are very extreme at this point:

Screen Shot 2021-10-14 at 9.36.10 PM.png

I'm attaching the preset I'm using as well for all of this.

I appreciate the continued deliberation and exploration on how to make this Ross thing happen! :D
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
Clips! It goes Ross --> Dynamicomp --> Ross (L) + Dynamicomp (R). It was all reamp with the same take. Nothing was live.



Here you can see the decay in the waveforms on the tracks:

View attachment 90262

At that 32.2 beat marker you can hear the Ross swell to bring the level up -- I can't make the Dynamicomp (or any model) do that. It also appears to have a much slower release time.

My Dynamicomp settings are very extreme at this point:

View attachment 90263

I'm attaching the preset I'm using as well for all of this.

I appreciate the continued deliberation and exploration on how to make this Ross thing happen! :D
Did you ever try a boost before it?

Also, FWIW, you'd only hear that late swell in pretty tailored circumstances, like soloed.
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
Did you ever try a boost before it?

Also, FWIW, you'd only hear that late swell in pretty tailored circumstances, like soloed.
Yes. Didn’t help. But try it with the preset and see what you can come up with?

It’s both the swell and the extra slow release time.
 

dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Yes. Didn’t help. But try it with the preset and see what you can come up with?

It’s both the swell and the extra slow release time.
Here's an odd way of looking at getting the type of decay swell in your clip.

Did you try putting a volume block after the compressor block and use a dynamics or adsr controller to raise the volume level as note decays?
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
Did you try putting a volume block after the compressor block and use a dynamics or adsr controller to raise the volume level as note decays?
I had tried this on the level setting in the compressor block itself, but it's not completely effective because the controllers are tied to the signals at the input block, not the input signal to the compressor block. If you dialed it with a clean guitar, for example, it'd behave quite differently if you put a drive pedal in front of the compressor block and turned it on (something I like to do).
 
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