Turn MIM Strat (90's purchase) into the real deal

Bman

Power User
I have a MIM Strat that I bought in the mid 90's. The pickups must be hot and the pots are crap and the bridge is crap. I'm thinking of sinking some light $ into rebuilding it into what a Strat "should" be. The pickups will most likely be the most important factor and I've received a lot of suggestions. Rio Grande seems to be the most common. But from what I've ready they're pretty hot. Is that the case? They're also pretty pricey, which is why I haven't pulled the trigger. I'm afraid of making the wrong choice on a 'set' of p/u's.

Is the consensus that you need/want low output p/u's or am I biased that way because the current p/u's are hot don't sound 'stratty'? I want my SRV...my Nile Rogers... I want the STRAT :cry: out of my strat!

I'm thinking of a Wilkerson trem for the bridge replacement but I'm not 100% on that. I've got several Floyd equipped guitars and whammy is not essential. Plus I think I'd need new tuners to get the best out of the Wilkerson.

Should I take the quick route and buy a neck p/u first? That's the tone I'm chasing anyway. And if I do that, should I replace all the pots so I get the best out of that neck p/u?

This will my first DIY, aside from pickup swaps 20 years ago. I don't like the small frets either....lol. Man, I'm a hot mess just talking about this POS guitar...lol. I should prolly edit this post and simply say, 'Any ideas on upgrading my old MIM Strat'? But I want my pain to come through. The thing hangs on my wall collecting dust. I'm jealous every time I read yall's posts about how beautiful your strats sound thru a Marshall preset or better yet, a Fender preset. Mine sounds muddy on the neck and more like a humbucker with the bridge.
 
Rio Grande makes some great pickups and they have different models and sets depending upon the tone and output you want.
https://www.riograndepickups.com/sets

If you want to stay with traditional single coils but want a bit more output, the Fender CS Fat 50's would be a good choice. Lindy Fralin also makes some great traditional pickups. I have a set of Fralin Tele pu's and had the pleasure of speaking with Lindy about dialing them in for what I wanted. Great guy and great service. Lollar is another that gets a lot of love for authentic strat tones but I don't have any experience with them. I believe Nash guitars uses them.

If you want to avoid the hum but don't want to break the bank, I would highly recommend Dimarzio. Their Virtual Vintage line really sounds good, I was pleasantly surprised. I wanted a noiseless strat tone with enough oomph to be closer in output to my humbucker guitars. I have the VV '54 Pro (neck and middle) and Virtual Solo in the bridge. If you can swing a Kinman Blues set, they are by far the most authentic strat sounding noiseless pickups I've heard. I compared them to a set of Fender CS '54's I had at the time (the quintessential strat tone to me) and they were hard to tell apart.

I am not affiliated in any way to any of the companies I mentioned. Just a gearhead and tweaker that's gone through more than a few pickups.
 
Whenever someone mentions pickups I always recommend checking out Vinehams. Canadian handwound for less than most.
 
Rio Grande makes some great pickups and they have different models and sets depending upon the tone and output you want.
https://www.riograndepickups.com/sets

If you want to stay with traditional single coils but want a bit more output, the Fender CS Fat 50's would be a good choice. Lindy Fralin also makes some great traditional pickups. I have a set of Fralin Tele pu's and had the pleasure of speaking with Lindy about dialing them in for what I wanted. Great guy and great service. Lollar is another that gets a lot of love for authentic strat tones but I don't have any experience with them. I believe Nash guitars uses them.

If you want to avoid the hum but don't want to break the bank, I would highly recommend Dimarzio. Their Virtual Vintage line really sounds good, I was pleasantly surprised. I wanted a noiseless strat tone with enough oomph to be closer in output to my humbucker guitars. I have the VV '54 Pro (neck and middle) and Virtual Solo in the bridge. If you can swing a Kinman Blues set, they are by far the most authentic strat sounding noiseless pickups I've heard. I compared them to a set of Fender CS '54's I had at the time (the quintessential strat tone to me) and they were hard to tell apart.

I am not affiliated in any way to any of the companies I mentioned. Just a gearhead and tweaker that's gone through more than a few pickups.

What does the statement "Middle Pickup is supplied RWRP" mean? Rio Grande's website says this but I haven't figured it out yet. I know it's gonna be something obvious too..lol. These guys are here in Houston. I should prolly drop in if they'll allow it.
 
RWRP is reverse wind reverse polarity, this refers to a single-coil pickup with its magnetic pole reversed and wire wound in the opposite direction compared to the other single-coil pickups in the same guitar. When the reverse-wound/reverse-polarity pickup is selected in combination with a standard-wound and polarity pickup, a hum-canceling effect is created reducing or eliminating noise and hum in the output of the guitar.
 
What does the statement "Middle Pickup is supplied RWRP" mean? Rio Grande's website says this but I haven't figured it out yet. I know it's gonna be something obvious too..lol. These guys are here in Houston. I should prolly drop in if they'll allow it.
Reverse Winding Reverse Polarity.

Means it's both magnetically out of phase with the other pickups, and electrically out of phase too, so combining it with others cancels hum, like a humbucker.
 
I had one several years ago now, I was very happy with Duncan "Antiquities", at the time they were supposed to reproduce the 50s strat single coils... the only problem with my analysis and love for them is that it coincided with obtaining a Fractal FX8 effects unit and everything sounded better! I didn't really have anything to compare them with at the time except the stock pickups and a duncan quarter pound on another guitar. I was though very happy with the single coil sound I was getting, but I can't say they are the "best" or anything like that. I do recall getting some real positive comments from one of my buddies who plays about the tone playing with him when I was using this guitar. If I recall they were not real pricey but not real cheap, like $350 for a pair or something like that. Some of the love may have been due to not having a single coil strat to play at all for a while before that as well. I put a SD Pearly Gates in the bridge of that guitar, and sold it because I was getting a ultra strat. Should have kept it though, that guitar felt great to play!
 

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If you want real strat tone it may be an issue with the heavy poly finish .
This aside if you want to continue with this the main components of Hitmaker and No1 are vintage bent saddles and relatively low out put single coils.
When Fender made the Texas Special no one actually measured the pickup output on the actual guitar and they assumed from recordings that they were on the hot side 7~9k. After SRV died they did a tribute model and they got hold or the guitar. This time the pickups were available to measure and they were 5~6k. Hitmaker has almost exactly the same output.
The other thing I mentioned was the saddles. This is a super important part of vintage strat tone . On your MIM the screw pattern is narrow and this stops most better six screw trems fitting but there are a few. Calaham make one that is a good solid vintage sound (if a tad bright .)
The sure was to stop it sounding like a vintage strat are a modern bridge and high output pickups however good.
 
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If you want real strat tone it may be an issue with the heavy poly finish .
This aside if you want to continue with this the main components of Hitmaker and No1 are vintage bent saddles and relatively low out put single coils.
When Fender made the Texas Special no one actually measured the pickup output on the actual guitar and they assumed from recordings that they were on the hot side 7~9k. After SRV died they did a tribute model and they got hold or the guitar. This time the pickups were available to measure and they were 5~6k. Hitmaker has almost exactly the same output.
The other thing I mentioned was the saddles. This is a super important part of vintage strat tone . On your MIM the screw pattern is narrow and this stops most better six screw trems fitting but there are a few. Calaham make one that is a good solid vintage sound (if a tad bright .)
The sure was to stop it sounding like a vintage strat are a modern bridge and high output pickups however good.
(Edit: I agree with all of the above quoted post, definitely replace the saddles/bridge - great pickup info and something to think about from the above quoted post) The guitars are well made. The necks on the MIM strats and frets feel awesome to me. Better pickups help, and then put a full block in, like American Strats have. If needed install a treble bleed depending on how it is sounding to you.
 
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I have a MIM Strat that I bought in the mid 90's. The pickups must be hot and the pots are crap and the bridge is crap. I'm thinking of sinking some light $ into rebuilding it into what a Strat "should" be. The pickups will most likely be the most important factor and I've received a lot of suggestions. Rio Grande seems to be the most common. But from what I've ready they're pretty hot. Is that the case? They're also pretty pricey, which is why I haven't pulled the trigger. I'm afraid of making the wrong choice on a 'set' of p/u's.

Is the consensus that you need/want low output p/u's or am I biased that way because the current p/u's are hot don't sound 'stratty'? I want my SRV...my Nile Rogers... I want the STRAT :cry: out of my strat!

I'm thinking of a Wilkerson trem for the bridge replacement but I'm not 100% on that. I've got several Floyd equipped guitars and whammy is not essential. Plus I think I'd need new tuners to get the best out of the Wilkerson.

Should I take the quick route and buy a neck p/u first? That's the tone I'm chasing anyway. And if I do that, should I replace all the pots so I get the best out of that neck p/u?

This will my first DIY, aside from pickup swaps 20 years ago. I don't like the small frets either....lol. Man, I'm a hot mess just talking about this POS guitar...lol. I should prolly edit this post and simply say, 'Any ideas on upgrading my old MIM Strat'? But I want my pain to come through. The thing hangs on my wall collecting dust. I'm jealous every time I read yall's posts about how beautiful your strats sound thru a Marshall preset or better yet, a Fender preset. Mine sounds muddy on the neck and more like a humbucker with the bridge.
I'd get a Wilkinson trem myself. I did get pretty lucky with a Pearly Gates would work well in the bridge. It was pretty even with Duncan Antiquity single coils that were vintage voiced, it is not a super hot pickup.
 
I'd get a Wilkinson trem myself. I did get pretty lucky with a Pearly Gates would work well in the bridge. It was pretty even with Duncan Antiquity single coils that were vintage voiced, it is not a super hot pickup.
Isn't a pearly gates a HB? I guess I could google that, eh? I'm sort of on the fence about having a bridge single coil that's a little juiced. I have a HSS and I love that set up: a hot bridge with a low output neck. The plexi models clean up so nicely with the volume knob (treble bleed a must for me).
 
If you want real strat tone it may be an issue with the heavy poly finish .
This aside if you want to continue with this the main components of Hitmaker and No1 are vintage bent saddles and relatively low out put single coils.
When Fender made the Texas Special no one actually measured the pickup output on the actual guitar and they assumed from recordings that they were on the hot side 7~9k. After SRV died they did a tribute model and they got hold or the guitar. This time the pickups were available to measure and they were 5~6k. Hitmaker has almost exactly the same output.
The other thing I mentioned was the saddles. This is a super important part of vintage strat tone . On your MIM the screw pattern is narrow and this stops most better six screw trems fitting but there are a few. Calaham make one that is a good solid vintage sound (if a tad bright .)
The sure was to stop it sounding like a vintage strat are a modern bridge and high output pickups however good.
I missed this post. Thanks Andy. I'm pretty sure the p/u's in the guitar are the Texas Specials because of the time period (1998-ish). Are you saying the lacquer finish or 'poly finish' could be contributing to 'dulling' that strat/single coil 'snappiness' ? It does have a nice shiny finish. I considered having a local guy relic it for me a year or two ago. He was buying Squires, sanding them down and a store in town was selling them. The felt great. I have a EVH Frankie that's relic'd and it feels like a nice soft T shirt... GREAT. I'd have no problem sanding it down and repainting it along with the neck. Right now it hangs next to a beautiful Silver Burst Les Paul, both get little playing time. I really need to take @Budda 's advice and sell what I don't play. Right now they're 'art' pieces.

I'll update the thread once I make a decision. Right now, I'm holding my $$ because of this crazy economy. Energy prices went crazy and disposable income is at an all time low.
 
Isn't a pearly gates a HB? I guess I could google that, eh? I'm sort of on the fence about having a bridge single coil that's a little juiced. I have a HSS and I love that set up: a hot bridge with a low output neck. The plexi models clean up so nicely with the volume knob (treble bleed a must for me).
I had a humbucker in the bridge of my MexStrat, they make a single coil version of the Pearly Gates... I put a SD Lil '59 in a ultrastrat and it was great also, but if you are have SSS then nevermind, I misunderstood. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...rly-gates-strat-pickup-with-logo-white-bridge
 
I missed this post. Thanks Andy. I'm pretty sure the p/u's in the guitar are the Texas Specials because of the time period (1998-ish). Are you saying the lacquer finish or 'poly finish' could be contributing to 'dulling' that strat/single coil 'snappiness' ? It does have a nice shiny finish. I considered having a local guy relic it for me a year or two ago. He was buying Squires, sanding them down and a store in town was selling them. The felt great. I have a EVH Frankie that's relic'd and it feels like a nice soft T shirt... GREAT. I'd have no problem sanding it down and repainting it along with the neck. Right now it hangs next to a beautiful Silver Burst Les Paul, both get little playing time. I really need to take @Budda 's advice and sell what I don't play. Right now they're 'art' pieces.

I'll update the thread once I make a decision. Right now, I'm holding my $$ because of this crazy economy. Energy prices went crazy and disposable income is at an all time low.
It won't have Texas Specials, some MIM Strats have Tex Mex pickups (a budget version). You can't do a relic on a thick poly it just looks all wrong and won't improve the tone . Sanding off the finish on a modern fender neck is quite a skilled job not to interfere with the shape, same for that thick basecoat on the body. Even using a heat gun which is the best way to remove the finish on a modern guitar is a skilled Job not to gouge or scorch the wood .
Also the paint process for a modern MIM strat is the problem. It starts with a body specked to a lower level (more pieces inconsistent etc) sanded to a lower grade and then painted heavily with a poly sanding base coat (very thick 1to2mm) then flatted and painted in 2K urethane (also 1to2mm thick). This is also plasticised to add robustness.This can't be easily removed and the body will be a lower grade anyway . The thing about the CS relic guitars that adds to there authentic tone is a super thin brittle finish like the originals. And before you ask this sounds different to no finish.
Belt sander Squire home relics sounds grim, almost as bad as Nash guitars look. The process of doing a relic starts with how and what you paint it with and the rest is very time consuming or it looks terrible.
 
The other thing I mentioned was the saddles. This is a super important part of vintage strat tone .
Definitely. I added Callaham bridges and saddles to both of my Strats and the sound is much more like the sound of the ’61 Strat I used to have. I think it’s a very good difference.
 
Definitely. I added Callaham bridges and saddles to both of my Strats and the sound is much more like the sound of the ’61 Strat I used to have. I think it’s a very good difference.
Can you describe the sort of difference those Callaham saddles make?

I'm wondering whether there would be any point to putting them on my EJ strat. My guess is no, EJ and Fender probably did right.
 
The Callaham bridges are so damn nice that just holding it in your hand makes you think “This is DEFINITELY worth the money”. I most likely won’t use any other bridge in the future.

In regards to pickups, I just bought a partscaster recently that has the Pribora pickups with some interesting wiring, I believe they sell these pre-loaded. The pickups themselves are surprisingly really great, it does the fat neck pickup thing without being too hot and the bridge is rather beefy, it’s like I can’t get that thin Strat bridge sound out of it. I’m continuous surprised with these pickups because of the range of tones I can get from them. Not sure if you’ve ever played a Duncan SSL-5, but the bridge reminds me of that if the SSL-5 actually sounded like a single coil (it sounds a lot more like a low powered humbucker to me).

The switching is pretty cool- middle tone knob is the master tone but it’s also a push/push that switches between in-phase and out of phase with the bottom tone knob being a blend pot to add the neck pickup in.

I went to drop an HS-2 into it the other night but the wiring itself was such a well-done job and I BUTCHER pickup wires with a soldering iron, so I’m leaving this Pribora guard alone and am just going to make a separate pickguard with that’s going to the EJ flavor.
 
Can you describe the sort of difference those Callaham saddles make?

I'm wondering whether there would be any point to putting them on my EJ strat. My guess is no, EJ and Fender probably did right.

A lot of people say the Callaham stuff is brighter, I haven’t gotten to make the comparison yet, I’ll be ordering another one this week for my partscaster that has a trem from, I‘m assuming, a Classic 50’s Strat (Andy’s the one that pointed out to me it was a Mexican bridge).

I‘m curious to how much of a difference it makes. People say SS frets are brighter sounding than nickel and maybe it’s because I‘m all over the place with tones that I never made a direct comparison of a before/after to really be able to tell. I also have very little care for the micro-differences between stuff that can be circumvented by moving a treble knob from 7 to 6, so I‘m probably the wrong person to chime in on this. :D
 
I missed this post. Thanks Andy. I'm pretty sure the p/u's in the guitar are the Texas Specials because of the time period (1998-ish). Are you saying the lacquer finish or 'poly finish' could be contributing to 'dulling' that strat/single coil 'snappiness' ? It does have a nice shiny finish. I considered having a local guy relic it for me a year or two ago. He was buying Squires, sanding them down and a store in town was selling them. The felt great. I have a EVH Frankie that's relic'd and it feels like a nice soft T shirt... GREAT. I'd have no problem sanding it down and repainting it along with the neck. Right now it hangs next to a beautiful Silver Burst Les Paul, both get little playing time. I really need to take @Budda 's advice and sell what I don't play. Right now they're 'art' pieces.

I'll update the thread once I make a decision. Right now, I'm holding my $$ because of this crazy economy. Energy prices went crazy and disposable income is at an all time low.
Apology also I somehow forgot you were looking for vintage Strat tone on the MIM conversion. I just had another conversation about MIM Strats IRL, and mixed them up! I was talking about what I'd do to mod a MIM Strat, but had been reading this thread also. Brain wiring is wearing out...
 
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