Tuning stability issues

Sixstring

Legend!
Ok, After changing strings (same gauge that it was set up for I believe, 10's) I still have a tuning stability issue. I have done the obvious thing... lubrication but still have an issue with the strings going sharp after a dive bomb. Any thing other tricks I should look to prior to having a tech look at it? I have the trem set to dive only and set the springs up a little tight so it pulls the trem back to zero point that I have set with the Tremol-No.
 
I'm using a Wilkie so no locking nut. I did oil the nut slots and I also went as far as to lube the Tremol-No parts and made sure that it was setup correctly, no binding of the parts through motion. I have also pre-stretched the strings just to throw that out there. The fact that they are going sharp after the dive tells me that the nut is the culprit.

I have been contemplating a LSR Roller nut but after researching it a bit I don't think I want to deal with the hasse of install, cutting up the fret board not to mention it has the wrong radius 9.5" with no way to correct it for the 14" that's on the guitar. I think I know the answer to my problem but wanted to bounce it off the forum to see if there is another way to deal with short of having it worked on.
 
From my experience it's the nut about 90% of the time and if it is not than it may be the wraps on the tuners slipping a bit. If you have too many turns when you release the tension the string can slip a bit in theory. This is of course assuming that you don't have locking tuners. I've always been told that fewer wraps are better and that there are ways to lock the string a bit.
 
From my experience it's the nut about 90% of the time and if it is not than it may be the wraps on the tuners slipping a bit. If you have too many turns when you release the tension the string can slip a bit in theory. This is of course assuming that you don't have locking tuners. I've always been told that fewer wraps are better and that there are ways to lock the string a bit.

Locking tuners, sorry I assumed everyone had seen my NGD post. I went searching to see what info I could find on the subject and saw an older post from HC where I think it was you as well as others that had posted about the nut issues so that's where I have been focusing. I just dont have the proper tools to widen the slots which is where I think the problem lies.
 
Do you have some 9 gauge strings that you can put on there to see if that helps? That might zero in on the nut being the problem (which it probably is).
 
I've not had any experience with that bridge but it could be possible the knife edges have worn already? Or maybe you got a bad bridge?

As long as the strings are stretched, and everything is lubricated, then it should be fine. Or it's a flaw in hardware, or design :O
 
with new strings you actually need to work them in where the kinks and bends are on the bridge where it's locked in. Basically you just have to play it for a bit then re-set it up.

I use Original Floyd Rose locking systems on 15 guitars.
 
Do you have some 9 gauge strings that you can put on there to see if that helps? That might zero in on the nut being the problem (which it probably is).

Unfortunately I don't, I thought about that but requires a run to town. It would be a good way to verify if it's the the nut ;).
 
I've not had any experience with that bridge but it could be possible the knife edges have worn already? Or maybe you got a bad bridge?

As long as the strings are stretched, and everything is lubricated, then it should be fine. Or it's a flaw in hardware, or design :O

The guitar is pretty much new even though I bought it used. The orignal owner claimed he only played it once which after inspection of the entire guitar a worn bridge can be rulled out. I know that these non locking systems can work as I have seen too many that do, Pete Thorn uses a Suhr with a 510 Goto non-locking and yanks and cranks on that thing in the How to Play Eruption vid that most of us have all seen with no tuning problems at all. I know it will work I just have to find and fix that issue ;).
 
Not familiar with that bridge but had a Parker with same issue. Finally tracked it back to binding in the bridge on low E sting. The string winding near the ball would hit a small burr or the sorts when sitting a certain way where it would not reseat correctly after a heavy dive... then would do a bend and guitar was back in tune?! WTH! Finally Took a drill bit and hand turned it to smooth things, put some graphite grease in, and no problems since. Good luck!
 
Not familiar with that bridge but had a Parker with same issue. Finally tracked it back to binding in the bridge on low E sting. The string winding near the ball would hit a small burr or the sorts when sitting a certain way where it would not reseat correctly after a heavy dive... then would do a bend and guitar was back in tune?! WTH! Finally Took a drill bit and hand turned it to smooth things, put some graphite grease in, and no problems since. Good luck!

Humm hadn't thought about looking in the block of the trem, I will give it a look see to make sure theres nothing going on there ;).


You' ll get it! I hope the guitar is a real player! :encouragement:

It actually plays really good when it's in tune :lol Given my hand injury and the feel of an unfinished neck it's a little frustrating. I'm starting to dial things in tone wise with the Axe as this guitar having a trem and hotter pups has a little different tone then the last CT which was a string through. I'm really having to bring the treble down in a lot of presets but it does have a more open sound to it I can hear more of the strings which I like.
 
So this is where I'm at with a Non-locking trem system which is exactly the way it happens. I'm guessing this is how they all work?

 
I don't think I'm speaking out my ass here calling BS on the video. Seeing that string bends in the video make the guitar go flat I would suspect spring tension issue and try moving and/or replacing them. You mentioned problems going sharp however which is more an indicator of binding. You said your trem is set to bend down only and I'm assuming that's the tremol-no blocking it... If you just run as float do issues go away?
 
I don't think I'm speaking out my ass here calling BS on the video. Seeing that string bends in the video make the guitar go flat I would suspect spring tension issue and try moving and/or replacing them. You mentioned problems going sharp however which is more an indicator of binding. You said your trem is set to bend down only and I'm assuming that's the tremol-no blocking it... If you just run as float do issues go away?

I haven't unlocked it as of yet, still working on trying to get it to return to pitch after tuning and a dive bomb. The nut (Graph tech) is as good as it's going to get and the only think I can come up with is that the downward pressure at the nut is whats causing the issue. I can tune the guitar as shown in the vid perform a dive bomb and it will return to pitch more or less but the minute I do a string bend that string goes flat. If I were to unlock the bridge and repeat the same string bend then follow it with a pull up on the bar it would be a good bet the guitar would came back to pitch.

If this is the norm for a no-locked trem system I guess I'm screwed when it comes to doing a combination of dives and string bends.
 
Only the best setups can sustain a full dive bomb and come back neutral, ie locking nut and well manufactured bridge

It could be coming from the wind on the peg, the nut, the bridge, the blade on the bridge ( not perfectly sharp) or something on the underside

I notice your guitar you has locking tuners, make sure you have as little wind on the turners as possible

One thing a lot of players have done (with non floyd setup-ups) over the years (you see this a lot in older clips of folk), is once they do a dive bomb and come back up, is to do a quick hit on the trembar

this motion in same cases releases enough tension to re-seat the strings (and variables) back in to equilibrium. some trems are notorious for this

Don't feel bad about it though, its a very common problem.

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Ill probably get flayed for this, however those sorts of bridges and without a locking nut where never designed to be dive bombed at the start of the set anyway. there are just too many many modes of failure that will kill your tunning

Also there is no guarantee when you last tuned everything was in equilibrium anyway, in which case it will never come back the same no matter what you try
 
Only the best setups can sustain a full dive bomb and come back neutral, ie locking nut and well manufactured bridge

It could be coming from the wind on the peg, the nut, the bridge, the blade on the bridge ( not perfectly sharp) or something on the underside

I notice your guitar you has locking tuners, make sure you have as little wind on the turners as possible

One thing a lot of players have done (with non floyd setup-ups) over the years (you see this a lot in older clips of folk), is once they do a dive bomb and come back up, is to do a quick hit on the trembar

this motion in same cases releases enough tension to re-seat the strings (and variables) back in to equilibrium. some trems are notorious for this

Don't feel bad about it though, its a very common problem.

--

Ill probably get flayed for this, however those sorts of bridges and without a locking nut where never designed to be dive bombed at the start of the set anyway. there are just too many many modes of failure that will kill your tunning

Also there is no guarantee when you last tuned everything was in equilibrium anyway, in which case it will never come back the same no matter what you try

Agreed, No flogging here man ;) I'm just trying to sort it all out so any constructive criticism is welcome.

My biggest problem is I want to be able to change tunings on the fly or with minium effort and still maintain tuning stability. The main reason I set the bridge up for dive only was because I was hoping I would be able to achieve this. I want to be able to go fron A440 to Eb and still be able to use the trem with out having to constantly re-setup the guitar. For the most part it is working but not 100%. Sadly enough I'm beginning to accept the fact that I won't get this kind of performance out of the guitar.

The only other system that I can think of that would mat be give me this is the Kahler which I know isn't foolproof ether but seems to have some of the benefits I'm looking for. Major down side is the sheer size and bulkiness of the system really detracts from the looks of the guitar not to mention the need to take out more materiel to get it to fit. Not sure I'm willing to do this to my guitar.
 
Yeah id definitely be a bit worried about modifying such a nice guitar for a khaler, probably just easier buying a second hand cheap ibanez or something with a floyd on it, best of both worlds
 
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