Trying to run a cabinet. Total fail. Help needed.

Ant Music

Ant Music

Fractal Fanatic
Hi guys. I have been going FRFR with my Axe Fx for many years now and I have been using the factory cab sims with my RCF 310A PA speakers. My favorite cab sim for Medium - high gain tones is 4x12 RECTO V30 (RW). I think the RCFs sound fine but sometimes I feel they are lacking in power and oomph when I am jamming with a second guitarist who uses a traditional set up.

Soooo I went and bought a Marshall stereo 2x12 cabinet (1936 150W Cabinet | Products | Marshall Amps) and a mate has lent me his Mesa Fifty Fifty power amp to try it out. My first impressions are that it sounds fucking awful!! It is so gnarly and shrill that I called the store and inquired about returning it. I am trying to persevere with it however.

I pulled out one of my RCFs in order to compare and the cab sim against the real cab and the sim sounded big with a tight low end. A friend suggested that I run a graphic prior to the real cab in order to shape the tones. After tweaking for ages it still sounded like shit. I tried to boost the low end and cut the high mids going into the cab but it seemed to make little real improvement. It seems to make little sense pushing frequencies that the speaker can't produce.

I originally got my first Axe Fx (Standard) so as to avoid dealing with speaker cabinets and their limitations and here I am again. My other option was to buy a Mission Engineering Gemini 2 Active stereo FRFR Cabinet but they are are just over AU$2K. I figured I'd get a cab as it was by far the cheaper of the two options. Anyway... If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I don't have much time before I have to return this cabinet and get my money back (if that's what I end up doing).

Thanks in advance guys.
 
There is a 'global eq' somewhere in the global or I/O menus (sorry, can't remember which one). Perhaps you could tailor your overall sound here & add bottom end or reduce high end?
I would also recommend trying another cab (just to be sure). Might just help confirm exactly where the issue is??
 
I'm puzzled as to why you would do that?? If you are using the Axe as a preamp & EFX unit (it sounds like you are) then I would recommend using Output1 as your main outs.
 
flash6969 said:
I'm puzzled as to why you would do that?? If you are using the Axe as a preamp & EFX unit (it sounds like you are) then I would recommend using Output1 as your main outs.
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Cause I am going direct, running cab sims to the FOH whilst using the FX Loop to feed a power amp and cabinet on stage for stage volume.

This is a relatively common for people to run the Axe Fx as I understand it.

In rehearsals I am wanting to use only the cabinet and not bother with PA in the rehearsal space because they are usually shit. My RCFs don't have enough grunt so I figured I'd try out a cab and power amp.
 
The power amp modeling can be disabled though, either globally (Global menu) or per preset (turn Sag to zero). Note that turning off power amp modeling doesn't work well with amp models which fully rely on power amp distortion such as the Wrecker sim. Also, there is a difference between turning off power amp modeling globally versus turning Sag to zero. Cliff: "If you shut the power amp modeling off from the Global menu it is not exactly the same as turning it off by setting Supply Sag to zero. This is because the virtual power amp always runs. So if you shut the power amp modeling off from the Global menu the supply will still sag resulting in a more compressed response. If the Master is set high the sag can be quite pronounced
 
First off that Marshall cab is not going to sound like the Recto cab sim so there is a huge part of your problem, to different cab types, 2 75's compared to a sim of a V 30' plus the Marshall is constructed with Poplar and is a classic style box. You're not going to get that deep in your face knock that a recto cab will give you. The recommendation of using an GEQ before the cab sim is something I did as well and worked for the most part. Have you tried changing the cab sim type to the actual cab you're using to see if it's closer?

The one other thing you are up against is the Mesa Power amp which will impart a slight sonic foot print so know that, small issue but a noticeable one.

Back when I was still using tube power amps and guitar cabs I found that if I left the amp sims on and ran the power amp so I wasn't hitting it with a lot of input level it sounded better, more neutral across different amp sims. I doubt that is going to fix your issue as I believe the cab you're using is the majority of it. One other thing you can try is the resonance freq in the amp sims speaker tab though I doubt this is going to fix your issue ither.
 
Oh right I forgot about power amp modelling. I've haven't mucked around with a cab ever since I turned on to the Axe Fx (2010) that I forgot about that.

Ok, so what is recommended regarding the Virtual power amp if I want to run cab sims to FOH whilst also running the FX Loop as a send to an external power amp and real cabinet?

This is new territory for me. Thanks for your responses.
 
I would run it both ways and see what sounds better ;), theres no one best way other than using your ears to hear what sounds or works best for your situation. For me, I always ran mine with it on and tried to get the cleanest power amp I could so the Axe was doing all of the amp modeling including power amp. Aside from the cab type you use the interaction with the tube amp and the cab is the major difference that I can think of when running a power amp and guitar cab.

Let me restate this... you have to run with it on because of how you're wanting to use it with FOH so again you need to get a cab that closer matches the IR you are using or change the IR you are using to better match the cab.
 
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I tried turning off the power amp sim and it seems to really deaden my tone going in to the RCF. I have tried to compensate for this by turning up the highs and adding some presence in the Amp Block. Does anyone have a better idea for this?

Switching the power amp sim off definitely made the the signal to the power amp and real cabinet less harsh but it still sounds shit. Groan...
 
Sixstring said:
Let me restate this... you have to run with it on because of how you're wanting to use it with FOH so again you need to get a cab that closer matches the IR you are using or change the IR you are using to better match the cab.
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I think you're right. I need a better more suited cab.

I'd love to get a Mission Gemini II but they are around $2K in Australia.
 
I usually send my main outs to FOH and use amp and cab for stage sound and never really had a problem with it. my chains are usually simple, gate, drive, amp, cab but I have no problems with some of my more complex chains, For most patches my cab is last so just before the cab I add an fx loop on a new line bypassing the cab so that my stage line can just use the stage cab for tone. I use a peavey 4X12 slant cab on stage so nothing too special. For some of my longer chains where I have delay and reverb after the cab I copy the same blocks onto the new line before adding the fx loop.
 
A few things...


  • Global EQ for Output 2 affects the signal coming from your FX Loop block
  • Make sure your FX Loop block is not in the last column of the routing grid
  • Make sure the signal your feeding to the FX Loop block is taken before your Cab block (Cab block is only used for Output 1)
 
hi, I'm a newbie in the world of fractal,not playing guitar and other gear...I will tell you I have and other friends fellow musicians have owned the 1936 cabs, HAVE being the key word here, they IMO and others , are a bad design and just sound eh, thin, inexpressive. Unload them and pickup any avatar cab, you will hear the tone you are looking for. A true night and day difference.
 
Cones on new cabs need to have a break in period. Hours, days, weeks, months, years! I am sure the IR for these models are from cones that have been broken in like an old baseball glove! .02
 
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