Trying to convince indie kids AX8 doesn't sound like shit...

Don'
JayCM800XL said:
I love my FAS gear but still think amps are cool! The wood, tolex, chassis, electronic bits and... yummy, vacuum tubes....The tone! I think the kids must pay their dues and learn their way around gear at their own leisure/interest. Wanting to have your own gear on a record is understandable. Sometimes those items combined (instrument/amp/pedal) are what inspired the song in the first place!
If the studio doesn't have the capability of recording their preferred instruments maybe the client should look elsewhere. I'd appreciate suggestions to try different gear but would be pissed off, for example if someone wanted to impose for me to use the guitars or amps of their choice.
Being vehemently "anti-digital" or "anti-analog" are just two sides of the same coin. Just being devil's advocate here.

As for me, I'll be using exclusively my XL and/or AX8 for any and all of my future guitar/bass recordings in an effort to try to stay one step ahead and sound better than those "retro-analog-hipster" kids!:D (Which, IME, there aren't as many around, unlike those tech savvy kids that get killer tones with their Pod Farms and Bias Fx and an iPad, watch out for those trouble makers, LOL)
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Don't work with guys like Michael Wagener then :)
 
cybermgk said:
I don't disagree about the pedals or certainly many Fenders. And I knew what the OP paraphrased quote was. But, come on, I know you have heard that cork sniffery attitude before, "It has to be all analog" used interchangeably with "It's got to be all tube", PARTICULARY as an argument against modeling tech..

and the shortsighted comment was supposed to be read as, insert is all analog/tube for the is, i.e. "But, thinking that using a dirt pedal to get distortion in that amp at non amp-driving volumes, is all analog/tube, is, well, short-sighted.
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cybermgk said:
I don't disagree about the pedals or certainly many Fenders. And I knew what the OP paraphrased quote was. But, come on, I know you have heard that cork sniffery attitude before, "It has to be all analog" used interchangeably with "It's got to be all tube", PARTICULARY as an argument against modeling tech..

and the shortsighted comment was supposed to be read as, insert is all analog/tube for the is, i.e. "But, thinking that using a dirt pedal to get distortion in that amp at non amp-driving volumes, is all analog/tube, is, well, short-sighted.
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Fair enough about the cork sniffing, that said and having been using the FX8 with amps...speaking of not analog. :) If some one thinks their expression is tied to the tool it's their problem/choice/perogative...as I said depends on the application.
 
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Ed DeGenaro said:
Fair enough about the cork sniffing, that said and having been using the FX8 with amps...speaking of not analog. :) If some one thinks their expression is tied to the tool it's their problem/choice/perogative...as I said depends on the application.
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Agreed :)
 
Ed DeGenaro said:
Don'

Don't work with guys like Michael Wagener then :)
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If i hired him, i would listen to his priceless(priceful?-made that up) advice. Or not. Battle of the egos, battle of the wills, happens all the time in recording studios worldwide. Whoever is paying should have the last word.
 
JayCM800XL said:
If i hired him, i would listen to his priceless(priceful?-made that up) advice. Or not. Battle of the egos, battle of the wills, happens all the time in recording studios worldwide. Whoever is paying should have the last word.
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That's the funny thing... Yes the customer is always right, that was once upon a time when music was not driven by YouTube bedroom noodles the customer (labels) hired producers to get their product nicely wrapped.
But yes I have worked a few too many times with guys that were extremely green that thought they are the customer, which is why I said earlier if I roll up my proverbial sleeves it'll be on my terms.
 
If I'm putting my name on the final product, they do it my way or find some sucker to fail with to do it their way. Not worth the hassle or potential grief.
 
Sixstring said:
So the real objection is looks and not the way it sounds...
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Yes. Under the guise of sound.

These guys judge people on the guitars they play. Not from a snobby point of view but what their scene is about.

Simply put: they're hipsters.
 
i'm as hipster as the next bearded/undercut/pour over coffee drinking/plaid shirt skinny jean wearing guy, but people aren't going to see the music, they are going to hear it. record with whatever works, use whatever you need to use live if you really have to fit into a scene.
 
ghost219 said:
Yes. Under the guise of sound.

These guys judge people on the guitars they play. Not from a snobby point of view but what their scene is about.

Simply put: they're hipsters.
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Just hide an AXE FX II in a head box or combo cab and stuff a mic in the grill cloth and tell'em Got ya covered! ;)
 
I have owned a professional recording studio for over 20 years now. With my newly acquired AX8 I have been extremely excited and eager to have some of my client use it on their record. Being able to have plethora of authentic guitar amps/cabs and FX at a finger turn is amazing tool in the studio not to mention no set up time if going direct, its a win win for myself and the client............That being said I would only suggest at most that they give it a try and NEVER insist on it. As we are all guitar players on this forum and probably the most flicked, hypersensitive over nit picking neurotic group ever to play a specific instrument. How and why should we judge if someone wants to use there own guitar amp and gear to record on, its there prerogative not ours. The exception to that rule is if there instruments or equipment are faulty causing technical issues to the recording itself........Damn I am guilty of the same thing myself, I don't even like sitting in on jams unless a can bring my own very small rig with me.........and we all bought a Fractal products that gives us all 8 million plus choices, that tells us how truly picky and neurotic us guitar players are!
 
Most of us fractalites have owned tube amp gear before, maybe racks with tons of stuff. Maybe every guitarist has to go through all these evolutionary GAS stages until he's sick of carting around tons of material, until he can appreciate high-end modelling and buy in into having to change his approach.
 
Jarick said:
If they're paying, it's their call IMO.
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Some of them are hardly able to pay much of anything. I honestly like recording and mixing and like helping local music. The attitude received from some of them makes me want to stop doing that altogether.

It was just a suggestion and not a dealbreaker for recording.
 
ghost219 said:
Some of them are hardly able to pay much of anything. I honestly like recording and mixing and like helping local music. The attitude received from some of them makes me want to stop doing that altogether.

It was just a suggestion and not a dealbreaker for recording.
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Ghost219......I do sympathize with you and I do believe the client always final say in what instruments they want to use for their creative process no matter how much they are paying.......That being said, I believe what your describing is a common personality flaw among many (not all) of the younger and quite very average talented musicians that tends to frequent recording studio. The generational personality flaw is based on a foundation of self centeredness , narcissism and over confidence built off of insecurity or being told by there parents how amazing they are no matter what the outcome. I also have extremely tough time dealing with these types of people. The funny thing about having had the studio for 24 years now is I do see patterns of personalities. Generally the most talented amazing people ever to come into the studio happen to being the nicest most easy non egotistical musicians to work with, and gracious people to record with, while the very average talented musician seem to be the ones to bring in all the personal baggage with them.
 
ghost219 said:
Some of them are hardly able to pay much of anything..
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Well, if that's the case I'd not give them an option. If the fractal/DI method is less hassle, and your preferred way to go about recording these guys, say you won't do so otherwise :) Thats what I'd do. Maybe they'll learn to be more humble.
 
ghost219 said:
Some of them are hardly able to pay much of anything. I honestly like recording and mixing and like helping local music. The attitude received from some of them makes me want to stop doing that altogether.
It was just a suggestion and not a dealbreaker for recording.
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I would stop then and just work on your own thing. It's nice that you do it in the first place and give a dam about your local music scene. It's ok that you bump heads as far as amp's or AX8. But a overall attitude, not worth your time. From what I have been reading you remind me of a friend, a bit to easy going.

John
 
Nothing says "bad tone" like snobbery. I have engineered a lot of sessions. It can be difficult to work with some clients. It can be difficult to to explain to them that they are painting themselves into a sonic corner from which you cannot extricate them. At the end of the trail, you can advise them, but IMHO, give them what they want. They will blame you 100% of the time when it sounds horrible at mixdown. I ALWAYS remind them that I tried to help them but they insisted I do it "their way". I turn down a project if I sense that the "artists" will be extremely difficult to work with, and yes, I have turned a few down.

One trick I learned is to try to give them a quick mix at the end of a session. Sometimes it helps save a lot of reworks.
 
... which is why I was saying that you should pull a DI of the guitars/bass (just in case) but still do it their way. Then in the end, either you eat crow and compliment them on how great their rig sounded, or you save the day when you reamp their once-in-a-lifetime performance. Either way, you were a pleasure to work with.
 
RLD said:
It's their dime.
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The most important point mentioned in this thread. This has zero to do with analog vs digital and about fulfilling a client's needs. If you as an engineer are being paid by the artist it's really their call. If they demand to use only Sure 57's to record at a bus stop and to do everything in 1 take...if they can afford to be eccentric it's their call. In the same way you as an engineer want them to be more open minded to the Axe, you need to be more open minded to their demands as crazy as they may be because a huge part about tracking is capturing the intangibles and sometimes it takes an unconventional approach to get the best takes available. The question is whether you want to take client's on like this as their experience, good or bad, will have your name attached to it.
 
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