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True Story

TSJMajesty

Power User
What about tweaking their settings because there was just a "new firmware" release?? ;)
Yes and No. The tone needs to be right within the band mix context, so adjust your main band presets at home first, then maybe tweak them while you're playing the song...? I used to set up a few presets that were slightly different, then change them during a song to see which sounded better, so as to not waste rehearsal time. That's a tough one, imo, because a preset that sounds good alone, may need further tweaking to sound better in the mix. This is where experience really helps.
 

la noise

Fractal Fanatic
How big is your room? And are you playing songs that really require 2 guitars? Especially when considering the Looper?

It's a sufficient and partially treated room. He took his garage and turned it into
a studio space. Plenty large enough for a band--- and we play a lot of Harder Rock
to New Country. He uses the acoustic settings on his Variax for about 20 to 30
percent of what we play (and needs to start using a compressor on his Helix for that
stuff, by the way. ;) )

The volume issue is really him pumping his guitar through the Mains and Monitors
while we rehearse. We have NEVER done that in 15 + years we have played together.
We both understood it was just not needed if we are also running into backline setups
on both sides. In his words "It just sounds better" if he runs his Helix live through the PA.

To him. Not to me. Not at rehearsal. Not even close.
 

la noise

Fractal Fanatic
THIS !!!! 100% THIS !!! :) Was guilty of it myself for years before figuring it out. Words of wisdom.

I blame Metallica for a generation of those horrific monsters, otherwise known as guitar
players, who cranked the bass and treble and scooped the mids and somehow thought
that was "great tone!" ;)
 

TSJMajesty

Power User
The volume issue is really him pumping his guitar through the Mains and Monitors
while we rehearse. We have NEVER done that in 15 + years we have played together.
.... In his words "It just sounds better" if he runs his Helix live through the PA.

To him. Not to me. Not at rehearsal. Not even close.
As long as you guys know how to sound good live (which you should, since you've been playing for 15 years), then "sounding better" at rehearsals at the expense of hearing things clearly is simply not necessary. Sounds like his priorities need adjusting, along with his volume/tone.
 

la noise

Fractal Fanatic
Let's cut to the chase ... we all know this is working up to being advised to get a baseball bat then wade into that complete bastard's house and take him out at the knees while the vocalist takes a mic stand to his Helix

Too funny. We've been really good friends and gotten along great "tonally"
until the past few months when I started bringing the FM3 to rehearsal.

Some say, "coincidence." I say, "Maybe not a coincidence." ;)
 

TSJMajesty

Power User
Too funny. We've been really good friends and gotten along great "tonally"
until the past few months when I started bringing the FM3 to rehearsal.

Some say, "coincidence." I say, "Maybe not a coincidence." ;)
Jeez. 2 guitarists in a band is bad enough from my standpoint, but 2 guitarists who own competing top-of-the-line modellers...? You may as well both be trying to tap the female lead singer. (Been there as well...)
 

TSJMajesty

Power User
You get together to rehearse with your friend/singer, @TSJMajesty ?
Yep. This past Wednesday. Thanks for asking. Went great. He's doing most of the singing, so I was fine with him picking the songs, especially since this is (for now) just a one-off gig. But he did mention if it goes well, he'd be down for doing some more. I'd actually love for that to happen, as long as we could do some different stuff than we used to do, just to keep things fresh.

He's actually an awesome drummer (that's how we met), so I'm slowly playing some parts of other songs I've been fooling around with, in hopes that he wants to take this in a slightly different direction. (He's got to be getting tired of playing 80's pop songs in his main band-- I know him very well, and he's the kind of guy who every few years needs to do different things, whether it be fixing up old cars, to learning how to play different instruments.) Plus, I caught him a couple times checking me out while he was setting up the PA (he hasn't heard me play in years, and I've improved a LOT since we were in a band together.) So we'll see. If it happens, that'd be cool. If not, that's fine also.
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
I used to mix a modern (at the time) pop band, and I remember their arrangement taking a huge leap when the bass player, keyboard player, and guitar player started working on their parts quietly in a room together without the rest of the band. You hear how everything fits together, and improve.
 

la noise

Fractal Fanatic
Yup, Dave. I don't doubt that. The best musicians I have played with have been very sensitive to volume
and the worst really seemed to have no fucks to give when it came to volume. If you can't hear EVERYONE
in the band then how can you respond and react accordingly. It's just common musical sense (and yeah,
I like ripping and letting it fly, too). :)

Working on harmonies in a non-amplified setting is great, too.
 

TSJMajesty

Power User
Great points about working on certain parts in smaller groups. Come to think of it, whenever a member couldn't make rehearsal (especially the drummer), instead of nixing it for the week, we'd still get together to work on vocal harmonies. And I remember a few times hearing something that wasn't being played right, so we'd just have 2, maybe 3, play it together to get it totally in sync. Usually something minor, like a syncopated riff not lining up, and once we'd go back to full band, it was like, the difference was actually a lot more than we thought.

Sometimes the difference between a band sounding just "good", as opposed to "great", comes down to details. Playing parts accurately (practicing to a metronome), not adding those extra "chucka's" between notes where there should be total silence, that us guitar players love to do, etc. are important. Assuming you care about being "tight." Some bands don't, and that's certainly ok as well.
 

DrProgNerd

Member
I blame Metallica for a generation of those horrific monsters, otherwise known as guitar
players, who cranked the bass and treble and scooped the mids and somehow thought
that was "great tone!" ;)
I was totally guilty of the scooped 'tone' approach. As stated previously: it's the product of sitting in a room for hundreds of hours - practicing. When you reach a level of ability to play gigs with a band, you believe that this 'tone' that you have been cultivating and have acclimated to - will fit in the band. Because you have never had to 'find your lane' when you practice (all the lanes are yours. lol) you think that your 'awesome room tone' is going to translate to 'awesome stage tone'.
Before I figured it out - I would be crushed to hear at the end of a show (that I thought went great) that people couldn't hear me. "Dude you need to turn up" or "Man, I couldn't hear any of your solos." Music that I'd worked on for dozens of hours - and solos that I poured my heart into - fell into the the deep, dark chasm of scooped mids.
The solution: there's a knob. It's not called 'Master Volume'. It's called 'Middle'. Lol !!!
Ah, the stuff you don't know before you know stuff.
 

la noise

Fractal Fanatic
I see so many threads on different forums (or is it forae? :) ) that have zero follow-up and
just leave you hanging as to how an issue was resolved. Hate that.

So what happened here? Well a phone call from my Helix/Variax wielding guitar buddy
cleared all of this up. He called me out of the blue a few weeks ago to tell me a story that
he said I would not believe. I still don't believe it. He let me know that after playing co-ed Volleyball
in the local Beer League our drummer was detained by the Feds. Yup. Those Feds. Not the ones
in the Red, White, and Blue trucks.

I won't go into details, and will just add that everyone in the band has been blown away by this
news, but our little drummer buddy is not going to see the outside of a Federal Penitentiary
for 30 to 40 years.

So I am back to playing drums again---for the time being---and the volume wars are sadly a thing
of the past.
 

Dave Merrill

Fractal Fanatic
I see so many threads on different forums (or is it forae? :) ) that have zero follow-up and
just leave you hanging as to how an issue was resolved. Hate that.

So what happened here? Well a phone call from my Helix/Variax wielding guitar buddy
cleared all of this up. He called me out of the blue a few weeks ago to tell me a story that
he said I would not believe. I still don't believe it. He let me know that after playing co-ed Volleyball
in the local Beer League our drummer was detained by the Feds. Yup. Those Feds. Not the ones
in the Red, White, and Blue trucks.

I won't go into details, and will just add that everyone in the band has been blown away by this
news, but our little drummer buddy is not going to see the outside of a Federal Penitentiary
for 30 to 40 years.

So I am back to playing drums again---for the time being---and the volume wars are sadly a thing
of the past.
Alrighty then, problem solved!

Kinda sucks for him, and the band.

Let us know whether your other guitarist actually turns down, now that you're not "competing" with him (like you ever were) ;)
 
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