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As someone who has never played in a band, how loud should you hear yourself in relation to the rest of the band. 50/50 or a tad louder? I won't ask how it's accomplished because I'm sure it can be complicated.
 
you should always play for the song, if the guitar needs to be way down then turn it down, if it needs to be on top of the mix for a solo then turn it up, generally everyone should be able to hear themselves, most of the time when the singer is doing their thing you'd want to be in the mix so vocals can stand out, in smaller rooms it can get difficult to manage in larger stage type open areas its much easier so spread out and have zones of each musicians sound (no iem's) if you use iem's then its a different ball game...
 
Tonedeaf said:
As someone who has never played in a band, how loud should you hear yourself in relation to the rest of the band. 50/50 or a tad louder? I won't ask how it's accomplished because I'm sure it can be complicated.
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First, you gotta hear yourself enough to play. Iow, if you can't hear yourself, you can't tell how far to bend notes so they'll be in pitch. Not necessarily louder or softer than the band, rather, what you require. Same thing for hearing whatever other instruments you need to hear to be able to follow along. And same for them. Some guys only need to hear just a little of themselves, the vocals, and nothing else.
 
Depends on the genre though, which no one ever really addresses in these discussions.

Pop rock is all about the beat and the vocal. 8 string drop Z metal is not.

Sorry about my "genre terms" I'm old and no longer care to keep up.
 
Also about distinguishing the 2 guitars. All too often players hone the guitar sound by itself, huge sound, covering all the frequencies. But in a band, for live, cutting some lows and highs out help lots. But the 2 guitar players should plan to make a couple presets that compliment each other.
I always mention shook me all night long, when that 2nd guitar comes in, it is distinguishingly different. Neither sux, but likely solo’ed on their own aren’t huge sound. But ya, 2 electric players should spend time on that. Maybe he needs a pa monitor right at his head. I place mine on a pa stand sorta side wash towards the band. Audience & PA can’t hardly hear it.
 
Nothing more aggravating than playing in a band where musicians don’t respect each other enough to play as a team. It’s just not worth the aggravation.

Had something similar happen a few decades back. We were friends, we chatted, we tried to make it work a couple of times, I walked. Sometimes bands don’t gel for whatever reason - organization, commitment, ego/clashes of personality - whatever… ultimately the reason doesn’t matter. Reality is, there has to be respect enough for each other and the final product - the music - or it just isn’t going to work.

What you gonna do? Head out of the garage and into a gig and he pull this kinda thing? I have seen that. It’s not pretty.

..Like others have said, talk with the guy, give it the old college try, but if it’s not gonna work, walk. Walking doesn’t cost you a thing. Neither more wasted time, or hits to a professional reputation.
 
I once read that a band should have written terms, like a formal business plan, that covers everything- types of music, songs, how often gigs & rehearsals will be, whether backline amps or not, how to handle live sound, etc. Essentially anything that has been, or could be, a potential area of conflict. And not be ruled by democracy, but by that plan. And make one person the leader, who resolves things not covered. That person discusses his overall philosophy for the band, in detail, with every prospective member ahead of time. That way, if you don't click, you'll know it before you waste your time, and things go a lot smoother. I've never tried it, but it seems like a good idea, and if I ever do the band thing again, I will adopt that line of thinking, even if I don't do everything the guy who wrote the article advocates.
 
laxu said:
I think you are really projecting here more than anything. I don't think your other guitarist is "intimidated by your superior Fractal tones" at all. Owning both the Helix Floor and a FM3 I can get very similar sounds out of them through the same output system. Which to use comes down to what features you value most.

You need to talk about the situation as it makes the whole band sound worse if the singer can't be heard. My experience is that with the FM3 Cygnus update you now get a lot fuller tone out of the Fractal compared to older firmware so maybe it could be that you are taking more space in the mix than before and might need to cut some lows to fit in better?
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Thanks. :)

Like I mentioned elsewhere.... I have known and been best buds with him for nearly 2 decades. I have
seen a lot, and so has he. I made the transition from strictly tube amps to an Helix, then a Kemper, and now
an FM3 in the past year. So, not novices here by any means. :)

I know you dig your Helix, tooo. I read. :)

So does he, but at equal volume the Kemper and Fractal both buried his Helix. He and the bass player even commented
on how great the Kemper sounded compared to his Variax/Helix setup (which does give him some more versatility when doing
acoustic/altered tunings/etc.). Same when I started using the FM3. Maybe it is the newness factor as he has been using the
Helix setup for roughly 5 years now. I don't know. I do know that he started running through the Monitors and Mains a
FUCK OF A LOT more when I started with the FM3. I am not sure it is just coincidence. :)

Oh, and he runs more low-end than I do. I cut everything in the low-end and tend to run Marshall-based presets
that are mid-centric while he is more of a modern high-gain guy who likes Bogner Ubershcalls and Diezels. I also setup
on the same side as the bass player.

Thanks again. :)
 
So many great posts! You guys rock.... and since I am conflict avoidant I am wondering
if anyone wants to represent me when Band Court convenes. ;)
 
DaveO said:
my 2cents, record the rehearsals/gigs and make it a band to do to listen to the recording as they dont lie...
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Yes! Tape doesn't lie, does it? :)

We do record our entire rehearsal, but he controls that, too. His signal is significantly hotter into the DAW
than anyone else's---even the vocals. But it gets mixed in such a way that to him it sounds ok.... to him.

Almost need a single room mic to capture what it actually sounds like "in the room."
 
Intoodeep1113 said:
Why don't you ask the guy if something is wrong? Don't need to be sneaky and try all sorts of stuff.
Some ideas:
Hey man, I noticed you are playing way louder than usual. Are you having trouble hearing yourself?
Am I too loud?
Is my setup change coving the sonic space you used to sit in?
I notice that the singer is straining to keep up, it sounds better and it's safer for him when he isn't.
When you play that loud, there isn't much value in having another guitarist.

It seems like anything short of direct and kind will be perpetuating volume wars and ego acts. You say he's been a buddy for 20 years, there must be some sort of relationship there
Click to expand...

Your relationship skills are far superior to mine. :) What great questions! You are right---no
need to put him on the defensive when bringing it up. Thanks!
 
TSJMajesty said:
Oh yeah, we're totally fine. Maybe due in part to my quitting. In fact, we're getting together next week to rehearse for a drop in outdoor acoustic gig where we'll play 6-10 songs. Actually, I'm secretly planning on using my Majesy's piezo through some clean lush Axe presets (I haven't touched my acoustics in years, lol), but more so, getting the chance to show him I've been real busy becoming a better player, and of course showing off the Axe3, hehehe (he has a Helix.)
Yes, it was a fun band, but I can't be ruled by a dictator.
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Cool! Have fun! :)

Crazy that our conflicts are both with controlling Helix users, eh? Again... probably just coincidence. ;)
 
la noise said:
So does he, but at equal volume the Kemper and Fractal both buried his Helix. He and the bass player even commented
on how great the Kemper sounded compared to his Variax/Helix setup (which does give him some more versatility when doing
acoustic/altered tunings/etc.). Same when I started using the FM3. Maybe it is the newness factor as he has been using the
Helix setup for roughly 5 years now. I don't know. I do know that he started running through the Monitors and Mains a
FUCK OF A LOT more when I started with the FM3. I am not sure it is just coincidence. :)

Oh, and he runs more low-end than I do. I cut everything in the low-end and tend to run Marshall-based presets
that are mid-centric while he is more of a modern high-gain guy who likes Bogner Ubershcalls and Diezels. I also setup
on the same side as the bass player.
Click to expand...
In that case it might be that he isn't as loud as you think. Bust out a decibel meter, let him play and then compare to the volume you get at the same distance to your amplification system.

Nothing wrong with Uberschalls and Diezels but they are quite compressed so that might be a factor too.
 
la noise said:
Yes! Tape doesn't lie, does it? :)

We do record our entire rehearsal, but he controls that, too. His signal is significantly hotter into the DAW
than anyone else's---even the vocals. But it gets mixed in such a way that to him it sounds ok.... to him.

Almost need a single room mic to capture what it actually sounds like "in the room."
Click to expand...
Yes two room mics ie stereo to capture the true practice mix is the way to go, bring your own setup if needed,
 
Is it possible he just doesn't hear himself? I play with another guitarist who uses a non-FAS modeling device and when he turns up it is usually because the bassist is too loud. I usually stop playing and remind everyone we all need to keep the volume down to the level of the drummer (who is really the loudest one in the room).
 
Maybe they are. Some of them. ;)

I enjoyed your post in another thread about "subconscious" motives and
wanted to mention something about that here---as I am sure we have both
witnessed a ton of internal conflict in band for all sorts opf reasons, both spoken
and unspoken. I decided to just play some guitar today instead. :)

Still think that is a worthy topic, and maybe suggests that sometimes we can end
up doing things that we don't realize we are doing when we try to work with others.
 
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la noise said:
Maybe they are. Some of them. ;)

I enjoyed your post in another thread about "subconscious" motives and
wanted to mention something about that here---as I am sure we have both
witnessed a ton of internal conflict in band for all sorts opf reasons, both spoken
and unspoken. I decided to just play some guitar today instead. :)

Still think that is a worthy topic, and maybe suggests that sometimes we can end
up doing things that we don't realize we are doing when we try to work with others.
Click to expand...
Thanks! And to your last sentence: Absolutely. I've heard them referred to as our "blind spots." We all have them, and the hard thing to remember, especially me, is that someone who is doing something that is getting on your nerves, probably isn't even aware of it.

Me, in my mind, about my roommate: "How can he not see that I'm the only one who ever cleans the kitchen? Does he think the trash just magically takes itself out?"
 
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