Trouble with Low Tunings and gainy patches

D

dosilegecko

Member
Hi, I'm having trouble getting decent tones in dropped F#... I know its super low and borderline obnoxious, but I should be able to get something passable. I have an Ibanez RGD 2127 with stock PUPS.

I tried the FAS Modern 2 as to some people's suggestions and things just sounded fuzzy and muddy. Is there a method people use for dialing those in? I wish I could just use an amp and cab block and not have to have a bunch of other blocks to try to save the tone. Any methodologies I should try when going for the hi-gain progmetal with such a low tuning?

Any hints or tips would be great!:shock
 
Yes of course! I've gotten decent tones in dropped B but I'm having trouble with those same patches in lower tunings.

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Muddy? Are you using a frequency analyzer to see where the problem might be located? Try cutting around 250-400 hz, see if that clears things up. And/or increase the treble from 2khz upwards. Maybe try a tube screamer with the tone knob turned all the way up to tighten and brighten things?
 
Make sure to use a heavy enough string gauge for a tuning that low. The Ibanez stock pick-ups are known to be a bit muddy some times but I don't have any experience on those particular ones you're using. Try cranking up the mids and cutting the bass also.
 
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dosilegecko said:
Hi, I'm having trouble getting decent tones in dropped F#... I know its super low and borderline obnoxious, but I should be able to get something passable. I have an Ibanez RGD 2127 with stock PUPS.
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Get yourself some seymour duncan blackouts :) and try the severe angle amp! Lower the gain for sweet definition of tone :)

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a few other major considerations with low tunings are:
- your choice of string gauge
- you cannot get away with quite as much of the dirty stuff down there
the Djent fellas tend to use less gain than you think and recover the 'playing sensitivity' with a compressor, and then tidy up the tone with a gate [cos all that compression will pull up the noise floor and maybe may your tone susceptible to squealing]
comp -> gate -> amp
some like to suck the low end out of the guitar before it hits the amp with a filter block or a drive block [set almost clean]
- tones for low tunings tend to have a lot less bass than you'd think. Be gentle with the amp's bass control to keep the low notes clearer and recover the low apparent low end be going to the amp block's EQ page and knocking off around -6dB in either the 250Hz or 500Hz band. Low mids and low bass do not live well together.
 
Hmm. I have no problem with tone on my end. Think I have to thank my guitar for that (Ibanez m80m). Try the definition dial in the TONE tab. Works for me. Mess around with a EQ block placed before the AMP block too!
 
String gauge.

F# will require .082-.017 for proper tension at 25.5 on a six string .



Less gain.

LESS GAIN = MORE PAIN. don't hide behind gain, amend technique.


Speakers and poweramp.

The fundamental of your F# is 46.25. Well into bass guitar territory, if your speakers and system can't reproduce these lows you won't hear/ feel them.

You can try filtering much of the fundamental lows out as the bass will handle this anyway and boost at the second harmonic for more energy with less mud. That would be 138 or so. It's tough when tuning this low, nothing was designed for it.



When tuned this low your fundamentals sit halfway in the bassists territory, when recording or playing live the engineer is going to chop off the bottom end of your signal leaving you with mostly harmonics of the lows, no fundamentals.

Think an mp3 sort of sound as an example.

It is the nature of the beast. Accentuate the second order harmonics and decrease the lowest fundamental, the audience will never get to hear them anyway.


Also experiment with shifting the tone stack frequency around.
 
half way into bass terratory???
that F# is on the 2nd fret of the bass's E string..

kinda.. deep deep into bassland.. lmao
 
clarky said:
half way into bass terratory???
that F# is on the 2nd fret of the bass's E string..

kinda.. deep deep into bassland.. lmao
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Yes you are correct, my perspective starts much lower than yours that's all lmao, the highest I go is dropped C .
 
Moltenmetalburn said:
The fundamental of your F# is 46.25. Well into bass guitar territory, if your speakers and system can't reproduce these lows you won't hear/ feel them.
.
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Yes that was my first thought too. Why not use a bass amp and cab model in the Axe fx? You are already playing half a bass with that F# string anyway (beside the thickness of a real bass string)
 
Bodde said:
Yes that was my first thought too. Why not use a bass amp and cab model in the Axe fx? You are already playing half a bass with that F# string anyway (beside the thickness of a real bass string)
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I have a cabinet specifically for bass guitar or very low guitars with eminence delta 12 a , they work wonderfully for both.
 
A bit off topic: but with that low tuning in a band aren't you 'degrading' the bass player in the band? Bass player can't go an octave below that F# unless he also has an F# ultra low bass string. So if you are playing the same line in unison on the same pitch you can't hear who plays which line. I think most metal riffs work best when played in octaves with the bass.
 
Bodde said:
A bit off topic: but with that low tuning in a band aren't you 'degrading' the bass player in the band? Bass player can't go an octave below that F# unless he also has an F# ultra low bass string. So if you are playing the same line in unison on the same pitch you can't hear who plays which line. I think most metal riffs work best when played in octaves with the bass.
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Yes this is a truth. Tuning this low makes it hell for the bassist. In the mix they never exist. You wind up feeling the impact more than hearing the musicianship.
 
thank you for all the tips, I think my strings are the proper guage, its got a 26.5" scale. Im also well aware of turning down the gain know and looking out for problem frequency areas from my mixing experience. I just wanted to get decent sound without a million PEQs shaping the hell out of the tone :/.

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