Tremolo Tension: The Secret to a Great Strat

pharmd07 said:
Ok, just tried this. Didn't solve my problem.

I tune up every string. Then I bend ANY string and ALL strings go flat. Then I quickly jerk up on the floating tremolo and suddenly all my strings are in tune again. I'm not even doing large bends, only 1/2 to 1 whole step.

This has got to be a nut problem. I can't think of any other explanation. The strings are locked at the bridge and at the tuner. String tree present/absent makes no difference. Then again, I'm no guitar setup expert!
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Sounds like a nut problem or the trem is not returning to "zero".

What bridge do you have? I've got no experience with 6-screw bridges (except PRS which has "special" screws with knife edges).
 
unix-guy said:
Sounds like a nut problem or the trem is not returning to "zero".

What bridge do you have? I've got no experience with 6-screw bridges (except PRS which has "special" screws with knife edges).
Click to expand...

I have the American Professional bridge with two posts. Here's the link to the description:

https://shop.fender.com/en-US/parts...ssional-strat-bridge-assembly/0992004000.html

The only thing I did was replace the stamped saddles with the Wilkinson locking saddles in the hopes of improving tuning. My Suhr Pete Thorn guitar has the same Wilkinson locking saddles and it stays in tune very well even with tremolo use.

I'm using NYXL 10-46 strings. The guitar came with 9s on it, so I'm wondering if the nut slots are too small.

I also only have two springs on the tremolo right now. Does that make a difference?

I hate to be such a pain in the ass by asking a million questions. I'm trying to learn how to do my own setups and it seems to be more complicated that what I'm seeing in instructional books. Thanks for everyone's help!
 
pharmd07 said:
Ok, just tried this. Didn't solve my problem.

I tune up every string. Then I bend ANY string and ALL strings go flat. Then I quickly jerk up on the floating tremolo and suddenly all my strings are in tune again. I'm not even doing large bends, only 1/2 to 1 whole step.

This has got to be a nut problem. I can't think of any other explanation. The strings are locked at the bridge and at the tuner. String tree present/absent makes no difference. Then again, I'm no guitar setup expert!
Click to expand...

..and there is no friction in the tremolo cavity at all. ..No springs/claw touching wood at all, or when you use the trem?

For a nut issue, It’s just odd that ALL strings are going out of tune and return back to zero when you snap the trem. Sounds more like a bridge issue.

What strings are using? ...you didn’t go full-on Collen or anything? ..Because if the nut-slots are milled for generally lighter string gauges that will cause friction, but still, for all to go reliably flat after a bend then snap back in tune is a bit odd.

Rubbing in the tremolo cavity might cause that issue, and explain the fix.
 
Mark-B said:
..and there is no friction in the tremolo cavity at all. ..No springs/claw touching wood at all, or when you use the trem?

For a nut issue, It’s just odd that ALL strings are going out of tune and return back to zero when you snap the trem. Sounds more like a bridge issue.

What strings are using? ...you didn’t go full-on Collen or anything? ..Because if the nut-slots are milled for generally lighter string gauges that will cause friction, but still, for all to go reliably flat after a bend then snap back in tune is a bit odd.

Rubbing in the tremolo cavity might cause that issue, and explain the fix.
Click to expand...

There isn’t any observable friction in the tremolo cavity. The springs aren’t rubbing anything.

The guitar came brand new with 9 gauge strings. I’m currently using NYXL 10-46 strings.
 

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pharmd07 said:
There isn’t any observable friction in the tremolo cavity. The springs aren’t rubbing anything.

The guitar came brand new with 9 gauge strings. I’m currently using NYXL 10-46 strings.
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...and when you bend a string while looking into that cavity, you see no obvious sticking or lack of reciprocal movement?
 
Mark-B said:
...and when you bend a string while looking into that cavity, you see no obvious sticking or lack of reciprocal movement?
Click to expand...

When I bend a string, while looking into the spring cavity, I do not see any friction or sticking occurring. The tremolo moves as I bend the string (I tried this while doing bends on each string at different points along the neck).
 
And the bottom angled edge of that claw (by the screws) ..doesn’t rub on the bottom of the cavity?
 
Mark-B said:
And the bottom angled edge of that claw (by the screws) ..doesn’t rub on the bottom of the cavity?
Click to expand...

The claw does not rub on the bottom of the cavity. I confirmed this by using a 5/64” hex wrench as a makeshift feeler gauge. The wrench fits between cavity the claw at any point.
 
Checking the nut and saddle, If you have a very-fine sharpie, or the ability to accurately mark those strings and their position in the nut and in the saddle in a fixed position and when in tune. ...After bending a note, you might be able to actually see problem areas - staggering of your lines at those points where strings are not coming back to zero - it might allow you to see if the issue is certain saddles, or nut-slots, or the combination of both.

When I work these kinds of problems I use magnifying lenses (the geeky back to the future headgear), which makes these things easier to see. but basically you are looking to make zero-friction fixed lines to better indicate individual string movements and return at the nut and bridge.
 
pharmd07 said:
I have the American Professional bridge with two posts. Here's the link to the description:

https://shop.fender.com/en-US/parts...ssional-strat-bridge-assembly/0992004000.html

The only thing I did was replace the stamped saddles with the Wilkinson locking saddles in the hopes of improving tuning. My Suhr Pete Thorn guitar has the same Wilkinson locking saddles and it stays in tune very well even with tremolo use.

I'm using NYXL 10-46 strings. The guitar came with 9s on it, so I'm wondering if the nut slots are too small.

I also only have two springs on the tremolo right now. Does that make a difference?

I hate to be such a pain in the ass by asking a million questions. I'm trying to learn how to do my own setups and it seems to be more complicated that what I'm seeing in instructional books. Thanks for everyone's help!
Click to expand...
I use 3 springs on all my guitars and use 9s... That could be related, but I'm not sure.

If all the strings are going flat, it certainly feels like it's at the trem side.
 
If after you bend a string it comes back flat and the same string goes sharp when you down bend with the trem it is the nut.
Try this .
If it is the nut you will need to ease the slots .
 
pharmd07 said:
The claw does not rub on the bottom of the cavity. I confirmed this by using a 5/64” hex wrench as a makeshift feeler gauge. The wrench fits between cavity the claw at any point.
Click to expand...
Try pulling up on the trem before tuning. How does that change the behaviour of the tuning instability? Just to rule out anything unusual with the saddles.
 
Mark-B said:
Checking the nut and saddle, If you have a very-fine sharpie, or the ability to accurately mark those strings and their position in the nut and in the saddle in a fixed position and when in tune. ...After bending a note, you might be able to actually see problem areas - staggering of your lines at those points where strings are not coming back to zero - it might allow you to see if the issue is certain saddles, or nut-slots, or the combination of both.

When I work these kinds of problems I use magnifying lenses (the geeky back to the future headgear), which makes these things easier to see. but basically you are looking to make zero-friction fixed lines to better indicate individual string movements and return at the nut and bridge.
Click to expand...

I gave this a shot. I have a fine tipped Sharpie and magnifying eyeglasses. I think I might be seeing some staggering occurring at the nut. It’s not really possible for me to mark the position at the saddles as the strings are actually locked into the saddles.
 
guitarnerdswe said:
Try pulling up on the trem before tuning. How does that change the behaviour of the tuning instability? Just to rule out anything unusual with the saddles.
Click to expand...

When the guitar goes out of tune, it happens in all strings, even though I’m bending just one string. Quickly pulling up on the trem brings everything back in tune again.
 
Andy Eagle said:
If after you bend a string it comes back flat and the same string goes sharp when you down bend with the trem it is the nut.
Try this .
If it is the nut you will need to ease the slots .
Click to expand...

When I bend one string (any string), they all go out of tune, including the string I bent. Quickly jerking up on the tremolo brings all the strings back in tune. Could that be the nut?

EDIT: I think I misunderstood. So when I bend a string, all strings go out of tune. Then I re-tune the string I bent. Then I pull up on the trem bar. Then the string I originally re-tuned is indeed sharp. Is that what you meant?
 
pharmd07 said:
I gave this a shot. I have a fine tipped Sharpie and magnifying eyeglasses. I think I might be seeing some staggering occurring at the nut. It’s not really possible for me to mark the position at the saddles as the strings are actually locked into the saddles.
Click to expand...

...those nut files are a specialist item in themselves. A hundred bucks for a set of 10's. Up-to you if you want to get that involved yourself. If you mess-up re-cutting the slots you can get ring/twang - but you can get second chances re-leveling the beds of a nut with something like a UV cured glue or whatnot, but.. It's a hundred bucks for the tools to better work that nut.
 
unix-guy said:
He's suggesting you do the pull up before tuning and then check the behavior.
Click to expand...

I get that, but pulling up on the tremolo puts everything back into tune, so I don’t need to retune. The very act of pulling up on the bar resets the tuning automatically.
 
Mark-B said:
...those nut files are a specialist item in themselves. A hundred bucks for a set of 10's. Up-to you if you want to get that involved yourself. If you mess-up re-cutting the slots you can get ring/twang - but you can get second chances re-leveling the beds of a nut with something like a UV cured glue or whatnot, but.. It's a hundred bucks for the tools to better work that nut.
Click to expand...

I’m not sure if I want to go through the process of making my own nut. I may just have to make the 4 hour drive to have a luthier take care of this.
 
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