Treble bleeds...

B

Bman

Power User
Love em?? Hate em???

I've got an old Ibanez RG550 that I bought in '87. I installed Duncan Distortions in the bridge and it's just an incredibly versatile guitar. The thing I've always loved about it was the way it cleaned up using the volume knob on my Marshalls and of course my AX8. I'd been frustrated for years with my other guitars and installed different volume pots and finally researched to find these guitars had a treble bleed installed. I haven't pulled the plates off to confirm but it makes sense. Andy Timmons says he swears by them.

I'm contemplating putting one in my new Charvel USA Select. I love the guitar. It does clean up nicely, especially on the front neck single coil because it's low output. But it seems to get muddy when backing off the volume. Maybe not muddy but dull.

I had one installed in my Les Paul that's equipped with a Classic 57 Plus/Classic 57 combination but I don't think the tech knew enough about it to choose the right resistor because I can barely notice a difference. Or it could be the Classic 57 in the neck is too hot of a pickup and just doesn't clean up well. I also tried the 50's wiring, which by some accounts was supposed to be life altering...lol. Not so much, at least not with that guitar.

Any of you guys use them?
 
I installed one in my 3 main guitars last year after a thread here about them.

Pretty simple install and I definitely like it. Tried it on 1 guitar first, then put it into two others the same day.

On the Les Paul, I think you actually need 2: one for each volume knob.

It's a very simple mod...

The ones I bought are based on the Golden Age circuit but came with a little trim pot instead of a fixed resistor. Allows for fine tuning.
 
Yes, recently in my yamaha Pacifica. Cap and resistor in parallel. Very happy. Tried the simple circuit first but it just sounded way too thin.
 
JJunkie said:
Yes, recently in my yamaha Pacifica. Cap and resistor in parallel. Very happy. Tried the simple circuit first but it just sounded way too thin.
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I like the idea of trim pot. I believe some of the newer Gibsons use PC boards with multiple value selectors or I saw some Gibson video on it. I don't know the value of the resistor I'd need and the tech I had install this obviously didn't either. He pulled one from a tele he said. What it was doing on a tele, I have no clue.

My soldering skills are pretty bad. When I'm done it looks like my kids used silver Elmer glue inside. I modded a cap inside the DSL40 and the hunk of solder in there looks so gaudy it's laughable. But it worked...lol.
 
I can't live without it on my darker guitars. My PRS Hollowbody and my Standard 24 both have it. Essential on those guitars IMHO as the tone gets way too dark as soon as you start rolling back the volume. I wouldn't do it on my Ibby. Lots of treble on that guitar already! :D
 
StewMac’s Golden Age Treble Bleed works like a charm in every guitar I’ve put it in, single-coil or humbucker.

Golden_Age_Treble_Bleed_Circuit.jpg


http://www.stewmac.com/Pickups_and_...esistors/Golden_Age_Treble_Bleed_Circuit.html
 
Bman said:
Did you use that big orange hoss ceramic one or the small one?
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I went with the orange drop capacitors because that’s what was available to me. The values of orange drop caps have tighter tolerance than ceramic caps, so their behavior is more predictable. However, I don’t think that is as critical for treble bleed circuits. I wouldn’t hesitate to use either type
 
In most cases I have 50's wiring and don't care for the treble bleed circuit. But I also have guitars were I do have it. Its pretty much a case to case thing with me. In my collection the ones they do have it are are the ones with slightly hotter pickups. This is not by design but have noticed this pattern with mine.
As for cap and resister like to run them in parallel, when I do use it, spend some time getting the right combo. Because a guitar getting darker can be annoying, but a guitar getting brighter and thinner while turning down the pot is way more annoying to me.
Also a little high end loss does not bother me, which is why 50's wiring works for me most of the time.

John
 
Muad'zin said:
$7,54 for the big cap/resistor combo? That's like 100x what you'd pay for a single cap and a single resistor. That's an incredible markup.
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If you can find those parts for 7¢, let me know where. If you don't want to pay a few bucks to have someone assemble them for you, the component values are right there. :)
 
benvigil said:
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/

I think the minimum order is something like $6. So you could probably order TWO of every conceivable combination of cap/resistors and still be under the $6 minimum.
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That's a lot of waste if you just need a single cap and a single resistor though. And you can see that their minimum is about what Stewie-Mac charges for the pair. Consider the human cost to solder them and the price doesn't seem so ridiculous at 7.45 or whatever they charge.
 
5932C377-6527-4A2D-9FFF-1CF2C0A08AE1.jpeg
iaresee said:
That's a lot of waste if you just need a single cap and a single resistor though. And you can see that their minimum is about what Stewie-Mac charges for the pair. Consider the human cost to solder them and the price doesn't seem so ridiculous at 7.45 or whatever they charge.
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benvigil said:
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/

I think the minimum order is something like $6. So you could probably order TWO of every conceivable combination of cap/resistors and still be under the $6 minimum.
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Yup, their prices are cheap (albeit with minimums and shipping). If you're ready to do the assembly, that's one way to go. I still don't begrudge anyone for charging to do the work for me.
 
I’d rather have the capacitor and resistor already assembled although it sounds like I’ll prefer not having the resistor to get that volume to behave more like my RG. Cool thing is I can try it then clip it. But it’s the cap values that I’m clueless about.
 
Bman said:
I’d rather have the capacitor and resistor already assembled although it sounds like I’ll prefer not having the resistor to get that volume to behave more like my RG. Cool thing is I can try it then clip it. But it’s the cap values that I’m clueless about.
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You have to solder it into your guitar already anyway! The extra work involved would be maybe... 42 seconds or so. But definitely try different ones out with an alligator clip. That's the best way to avoid the hassle and waste of time trying different combinations.

iaresee said:
That's a lot of waste if you just need a single cap and a single resistor though. And you can see that their minimum is about what Stewie-Mac charges for the pair. Consider the human cost to solder them and the price doesn't seem so ridiculous at 7.45 or whatever they charge.
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I wasn't suggesting StewMacs pricing was out of line or not worth it. But @Rex asked where you can get those parts for $0.07 ... so that was my answer. Hell, Fender charges $40 (250k) and $50 (500k) for their "Tone Saver" treble bleeds -- now THAT is absurd right there.

Somebody else in the thread suggested that the best way to choose cap/resistor values is by trying various combinations and I agree with the suggestion. Bleeds behave very differently with various circuit/pickup/pots. The different bleed circuit styles also affect your pot taper in different ways. Fender custom shop uses a style that has a cap and TWO resistors, one in series and one in parallel. Having the different values at your disposal means there's not "a lot of waste", especially when you're likely to put different res/cap combinations in different guitars. And who here has only one guitar?!? ;)

Regarding the human cost (time): you ALREADY have to solder them into your guitar, so you can literally solder both at the same time, with ONE solder joint. There is no human cost involved that's not already being expended.

Rex said:
Yup, their prices are cheap (albeit with minimums and shipping). If you're ready to do the assembly, that's one way to go. I still don't begrudge anyone for charging to do the work for me.
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Agreed. I mean you could even have it installed by a luthier for your too.

Treble bleeds to tend to sound different in different guitars, so the style PRS uses and Ibanez uses and what Fralin recommends are all going to be different. But they all work.

I have the suspicion that people that have tried treble bleeds and didn't like them, didn't try the one that works best for their guitar.
 
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