Transformer Match

Wow. Well that's great and I proud of you. I don't know many misicians that know what excursion bias is. Or speaker impedance curves and transformer match. Or grid voltage. Etc. but if you do and don't think this can be presented in a better UI, kudos to you and the others that fall into this camp.

If I were fractal, I'd try to make my technology not only advanced but easy to use without knowledge of tube amp design. Does Windows require folks to know assembly language code, or bus protocols? Nope. Just because the axe models a parameter called "tranformer match" doesn't mean it works to expose this to the lay person and advertise that it's not something to overlook. Fractal needs to think like musicians, not computer scientists or engineers when it comes to UI.
 
Others have said it: you don't have to mess with the advanced parameters just because they're there, or just because someone pointed out a powerful one. You can stick with basic tweaks, and still get a wide range of wonderful tones. And that can be the end of the story, with no regrets.

...or...

Suppose Cliff says something like, "Don't overlook the Transformer Match parameter." If you really want to know what that's all about, you could spend two or three minutes playing with it, and your ears would know what that knob does, and you'd understand it better than any written explanation could tell you. If you spent those two or three minutes just once a week—playing with a different parameter each week, in a year you'd have a way-more-than competent understanding of the deeper parameters.

Or just stick with the basics and let the rest ride. It's there if you want it; it's not there if you don't. :)
 
eda123 said:
Lol. I guess this is where we start to disagree.

If you all think the UI is perfect, and there is no room for improvement, that's fine. Perhaps the advanced parameters are completely clear to everyone (as well as the speaker page). Perhaps in the company of a bunch of tube amp experts who know what excursion bias REALLY means. I'm an EE and i dont understand half of whats in the release notes or how to apply it. Maybe I'm in the minority. Just sharing my own opinion.

Remember just because the task is complex, doesn't mean the UI needs to be. Take DOS vs UNIX vs windows vs Mac os.
Click to expand...

I never said the ui was perfect.
Lets take the Mac OS. Behind the easy veneer, is basically unix. You get to this through the command console. To operate in this environment you have to know some code. This requires some fundamental knowledge about unix. You can go really deep. The deeper you go, the more you need to know. Most people do not know how to write scripts, but there are really cool and powerful thing you can do with it. Even at a more basic level this apples. You can't go into the network settings and just start randomly plugging in numbers nd have things work. You need to be given the parameters to put in or have a fundamental understanding of networking.

Similarly on the axefx. You don't have to know a thing about bias excursion, it is set to the appropriate settings for your amp settings automatically. If you want to delve deeper, it is there. But there is absolutely no need for you to do anything with it. Just like on just about ny os you can format your hard drive doing block sizes. Most people don't know what a block is or why you would change it, but the ability is there.

The ui is not complex at all, you just turn the knob. Lack of understanding of what it does seems to be the issue. But again, you don't need to bother yourself with it in that case. It is already set to the proper value. It is but here for those that wish to alter it.


We are all just sharing our opinions.
 
eda123 said:
Wow. Well that's great and I proud of you. I don't know many misicians that know what excursion bias is. Or speaker impedance curves and transformer match. Or grid voltage. Etc. but if you do and don't think this can be presented in a better UI, kudos to you and the others that fall into this camp.

If I were fractal, I'd try to make my technology not only advanced but easy to use without knowledge of tube amp design. Does Windows require folks to know assembly language code, or bus protocols? Nope. Just because the axe models a parameter called "tranformer match" doesn't mean it works to expose this to the lay person and advertise that it's not something to overlook. Fractal needs to think like musicians, not computer scientists or engineers when it comes to UI.
Click to expand...


This is nothing like assembly code, nor do you you need to know bus protocols. You are just turning knobs or typing in values.
But guess what on windows you can mess with programming, scripts, networking protocols, and some really in depth concepts. It is all exposed to the lay user. But most people just stick to the basic setting.


You do not need to know ny thing about amp design to use the axefx. Like your average computer user, stay away from the advanced settings. Stick to the basic parameters.

I don't suggest people that don't know what hey are doing muck around in the windows registry. However, it is exposed to the user through a simple command and I use it on a routine basis and would be pretty ticked off if that was taken away.
 
eda123 said:
Wow. Well that's great and I proud of you. I don't know many misicians that know what excursion bias is. Or speaker impedance curves and transformer match. Or grid voltage. Etc. but if you do and don't think this can be presented in a better UI, kudos to you and the others that fall into this camp.

If I were fractal, I'd try to make my technology not only advanced but easy to use without knowledge of tube amp design. Does Windows require folks to know assembly language code, or bus protocols? Nope. Just because the axe models a parameter called "tranformer match" doesn't mean it works to expose this to the lay person and advertise that it's not something to overlook. Fractal needs to think like musicians, not computer scientists or engineers when it comes to UI.
Click to expand...

My girlfriend uses windows and does so on a very basic level. Click on shortcuts and use applications. It works for her. I am an IT professional and can go much deeper than her to do pretty much anything I wish in windows. Do I have to to run windows in its fundamental capacity? Nope. But I can if I choose to because I have the knowledge. No different with the Axe. I have taken the time learn the box and am able to understand what the advanced parameters do even if I never use them. I am curious that way.

A technically challenged friend came over the other night and having never used the Axe before had his own preset dialed up within 10 mins. Was it a complex preset? Nope, Just Amp, Cab, Reverb, and Delay. Did it sound good? Yep. Does he know what the compression dial does from a technical or textbook aspect? Not a chance. Did he play with that dial with various grins for about an hour? Absolutely!
 
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eda123, have you ever written a program or maybe a database?
From one day trying to write a commercial FileMaker database, I know how the core work is exciting but most of the rest s boring and actually protecting the user from stupid inputs, making things fool proof & safe and writing/updating the d*** help files on top of that...
These are actually things that prevent me from releasing one.

It could be a reason why you would leave all these power user features out of the program.
As a programmer, I too love to put them in, because that's the easy part.
So if I have to chose, I'll gladly have them, be thankful they did and find it easy to understand how much work it would take to write the help files for it or produce the maybe childish looking UI to go with it.
UI is an art in itself. If you don't master it, you could make UI bloatware before you know it. So better leave it alone to some degree and just stack up the advanced parameters in a list, thank you :)

When Axe Edit will be fool proof, it will be quite elegant, no?
Tha advanced pars are generally not those you still wanna tweak on the gig, so who cares if have to scroll in a list for them. It saves on Axe resources!
And if you do, the iPad solutions etc. may be of help.

Maybe the next Axe could have voice recall for every parameter. Why not?
Then people will complain it's only in English.
You have to stop somewhere and concentrate on what you do best.
Soundwise, it's becoming easy enough now. It *is* an advanced device after all.
Maybe these kind of complaints will be adressed in a dumbed-down version one day. Guess what: most might still buy the advanced device :mrgreen
 
Its a knob. You turn it and it makes it sound different. Turn it until it sounds good.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but a couple of your posts are really contradictory. On one hand you want more information; on the other you say that it's too much. Then you want less parameters to dial, and on the other you are wanting to dig into controls that are clearly defined as being advanced.

Here's the way that I look at this thing. You've got a nice set of close to 80 amps and a bunch of cabinets. Don't tweak, just start with the simple stuff like saying "I want a hot rodded Marshall" and throw it in a patch. Then put a cabinet that should be right for that in the patch. Switch around a few times until you get something that is close to what you are looking for with just the default settings. Then go in and treat it just like an amp; adjust the "big" knobs and get it to sound as good as you can. Then play it and enjoy it.

The advanced and deep parameters are similar to what you would use a soldering iron and multimeter to adjust. If this was a real amp and cabinet you wouldn't usually open the case up and start adjusting the bias or take the transformer out and start unwinding it to dial in a tone. You'd use what's on the front panel and do the best that you could with that and to be really frickin' honest here you'd probably love it.

The ability to open up an amp in real life and do something to it that makes it sound better is a very complex and most likely costly operation and I guarantee full of failure. People don't do it all the time because of these reasons. We have the ability to go in and experiment if we want to with absolutely ZERO repercussions or cost involved. If it gets messed up just hit recall and swap presets a second and start over. I don't see how it can be any simpler. If you see a knob that you want to turn then turn it. If you want to learn more about it then look it up in the wiki. We have an ability to do something here; that doesn't mean that we have to nor should.

I do think that the biggest issue here is that people are looking for a magic knob that will fix everything. That knob doesn't exist so don't let yourself get frustrated looking for it. Threads like this are a step towards what it sounds to me like you were asking for which is better explanations and knowledge. Don't get hung up on terminology and theory; it's music and the only measurement tool you need is your ears.
 
vAmp said:
eda123, have you ever written a program or maybe a database?
From one day trying to write a commercial FileMaker database, I know how the core work is exciting but most of the rest s boring and actually protecting the user from stupid inputs, making things fool proof & safe and writing/updating the d*** help files on top of that...
These are actually things that prevent me from releasing one.

It could be a reason why you would leave all these power user features out of the program.
As a programmer, I too love to put them in, because that's the easy part.
So if I have to chose, I'll gladly have them, be thankful they did and find it easy to understand how much work it would take to write the help files for it or produce the maybe childish looking UI to go with it.
UI is an art in itself. If you don't master it, you could make UI bloatware before you know it. So better leave it alone to some degree and just stack up the advanced parameters in a list, thank you :)

When Axe Edit will be fool proof, it will be quite elegant, no?
Tha advanced pars are generally not those you still wanna tweak on the gig, so who cares if have to scroll in a list for them. It saves on Axe resources!
And if you do, the iPad solutions etc. may be of help.

Maybe the next Axe could have voice recall for every parameter. Why not?
Then people will complain it's only in English.
You have to stop somewhere and concentrate on what you do best.
Soundwise, it's becoming easy enough now. It *is* an advanced device after all.
Maybe these kind of complaints will be adressed in a dumbed-down version one day. Guess what: most might still buy the advanced device :mrgreen
Click to expand...

Yes, I write "programs" daily. I write modules (components) for software that sells for 1.5M per copy. So I know a thing or two about complex features and making a usable UI around them. That's part of what the challenge is. Writing complex routines is hard. Making them usable by less knowledgeable people is what get us our business, and can be equally as hard. Our end users have no idea what we tie to simple options in our software. It's mind boggling. I can easily add 40 command line options to my code, and tell people to play with them to find out what works. That may be tolerable for some. But not for many. And in times where competition is fierce, it can be a deciding factor in where your customers go.


Look guys I love the axe, amd I get by with the "basics" every day. And have zero complaints about my tone. I'm just saying these advanced parameters can be easier to use to get me where I thought I could never go. Perhaps by better UI around these many options, or, perhaps by better documentation so that it's more intuitive when to use them. I'm not trying to offend, or to belittle the awesome work by fractal.

I just can't see myself at a gig saying "shit.. I need to tune my transform enter match by two notches while raising my MV and lowering the dynamics.. And then I need to google the impedance curve for my speaker selection and adjust it by 10mhz higher --- that's what's missing!". I think fractal has the guts nailed, but could wrap these into a UI for musicians that is intuitive for musicians wanting to get the most out of thier gear. Not a UI built for engineers that play guitar, or those with excessive time to explore the interdependence of so many knobs.

If I'm alone I'll just shut up now. If others agree please say so.
 
I would never do that at a gig and I know what most of th parameters do. I wouldn't mod my amp in the middle of a gig either, which essentially what you would be doing. Those are not on the fly tweaks for them most part, they are more nuanced refinements.
 
I guess I will just have to say I dont understand the delima. I dont gig but if I did the last thing I would be thinking about touching is advanced parameters. I would think that most people that gig would have thier presets dialed in regardless if they use the advanced functions or not and the only adjustmets you would be dealing with are the basic tonestack controls and EQ. No?

I think you are exagerating a bit to be honest.
 
eda123 said:
... If I were fractal, I'd try to make my technology not only advanced but easy to use without knowledge of tube amp design. Does Windows require folks to know assembly language code, or bus protocols? Nope. Just because the axe models a parameter called "tranformer match" doesn't mean it works to expose this to the lay person and advertise that it's not something to overlook. Fractal needs to think like musicians, not computer scientists or engineers when it comes to UI.
Click to expand...

Most people know enough about Windows to get on the internet and watch porn. There's a lot more to Windows than what you need to watch porn, but most users don't need it, don't use it and aren't aware of it. On the Axe you can generally get your porn on the first page of a block's interface. For those who want it there are deeper parameters on subsequent pages of a block's interface, but page 1 generally offers the same parameters available as the amp or effect being modeled.
 
Well, what I *would* like to see, or was asking myself if it'spossible, or if I could make it, is a simplified amp schematic with some parameter locations and explanations as a quick reference.
But like I said in another thread, someone like Cliff doesn't have to waste his time designing Axe UI's so my grandma can use it. That will cost us a lot of powerful features he can better spend his time on, as you already know how much time it all costs.

If they wish so, hopefully a capable person can come along that can add to it.
For now, we have only seen that stuff Cliff is less directly involved in becomes a nightmare (Axe Edit).
So if I was him, I would keep doing what I did best and take my time to select capable people if they should turn up.
I would not NOW go slow on groundbreaking development to make it easy on ppl that often don't even wanna read a manual (or an extra book about amps).

I understand that hiring a team to please more people and coordinating all of that takes a lot of time and faith too and gives him less control over quality.
Since it's not going too badly at all as is, I would only make work of a better Axe Edit (which has started) and continue in the proven ways.

In a way you are right and we all understand that, but it just isn't realistic at this time. It's idealistic thinking while the situation is not too bad in the first place. If you took care to understand amps more [not saying I'm the expert, on the contrary, but I gather info], you may even find it easy that all parameters you want are in one list (or almost).
 
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javajunkie said:
I would never do that at a gig and I know what most of th parameters do. I wouldn't mod my amp in the middle of a gig either, which essentially what you would be doing. Those are not on the fly tweaks for them most part, they are more nuanced refinements.
Click to expand...

My point is that I don't know how to translate sound/feel changes from terms like "excursion bias". I thought most musicians would not either. Looks like I'm wrong, if those responding are gigging musicians without engineering knowledge and knew what this term meant to thier sound before the axe came around.

Guys like Scott state these are not nuances...and they are "huge". So I'm naturally intrugued, but find the terms and usage not very clear. If its clear for you (or you can spend hours in front of the box "using your ears" to find out what these things mean), then that's great for you.
 
eda123 said:
My point is that I don't know how to translate sound/feel changes from terms like "excursion bias". I thought most musicians would not either. Looks like I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
You are not that wrong. But the point is you don't get an explanation about how your car works to the minute detail either, do you?
In fact, it has become so specialized you have to have it serviced elsewhere.
In the Axe, we have the power to service our own amps :D It's an extra for those who like modding cars ;)

BTW: if they should make help balloons in the Axe itself, people would say "Mm, not that handy, they should put it in a manual". And as you know, then they wouldn't read that manual :mrgreen
 
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eda123 said:
Writing complex routines is hard. Making them usable by less knowledgeable people is what get us our business, and can be equally as hard. Our end users have no idea what we tie to simple options in our software. It's mind boggling. I can easily add 40 command line options to my code, and tell people to play with them to find out what works. That may be tolerable for some. But not for many. And in times where competition is fierce, it can be a deciding factor in where your customers go.
Click to expand...
The Axe-FX works the same way. It makes the complex routines usable by less-knowledgeable people. When you bring up a new amp type, the UI dials in all those advanced parameters for you. The amp block, along with the basic parameters (gain, bass/mid/treble and such), is all you need.

The Axe uses those advanced parameters to expose some of the complex routines underneath, for those who want to dig into them. For the most part, you can just play with those parameters, and let your ears tell you what it does. But if you want to know what you're adjusting when you manipulate those complex routines, you need deeper technical knowledge (of tube amps and how they work), not a better UI. At that level, there is no substitute for the knowledge. In that sense, it's no different from the modules you write at work.
 
eda123 said:
My point is that I don't know how to translate sound/feel changes from terms like "excursion bias". I thought most musicians would not either. Looks like I'm wrong, if those responding are gigging musicians without engineering knowledge and knew what this term meant to thier sound before the axe came around.

Guys like Scott state these are not nuances...and they are "huge". So I'm naturally intrugued, but find the terms and usage not very clear. If its clear for you (or you can spend hours in front of the box "using your ears" to find out what these things mean), then that's great for you.
Click to expand...

I'm with you to a certain extent. I've always been in the 'KISS' camp ('keep it simple stoopid' for those who don't know. I don't want to be an Engineer to know ever nuance to tweak my tone (by long experience, I'm excellent at it now...)

That being said, you seem to be looking for us to provide you something that doesn't exist: The tone in your head. It seems like you're railing against the (much painful) aspect of learning which set of parameters get you to 'nirvana'. Problem is that it's radically DIFFERENT in each amp model because of it's design. In each one of your posts you always say 'great for you that you know that, but why should I have to know this?' In short, you don't. If you don't hear what you need to hear in basic tweaking, and have NO desire to dig a little deeper (which I know, takes precious time that many of us flat out do not have...) then I will respectfully submit that maybe this is not for you? I don't say this out of 'you don't GET it', but out of the aspect of you'll get great sound out of the box, but in every gig you need to tweak as you go, and if you don't have a solid concept of a few parameters that make a big difference to you, then you'll be unsatisfied.

I know I can pick a few things BASED ON THE AMP MODEL and it will make huge differences. Yeah, it may suck to have to learn all of that, but the Axe sounds so great that you can only figure out 2 amp models, 2 drives, and play a gig without a hitch. You paid for flexibility, you had to know that it would take more than a 'I flicked through the manual' to get things to your satisfaction. Presets are fine, but based on your style, your guitars, and what you hear makes it iffy if it will work for you.

Most of this is simple. Cliff provided an excellent tip here (IF you need it.) There are a few other small tweaks that can make big changes, all in the WIKI, and on search here. Take them one at a time and restrict yourself to a single amp model. Based on your posting frequency, you HAVE the time to poke around a little, but in the end, we can help, but can't do if for you.

Ron
 
eda123 said:
Too many things to tweak. I want to dial in like an amp and not worry about tranformer match, supply bias, dynamics, compression, excursion time, sag, definition knobs. Oh and then the speaker tab!
.
Click to expand...

There are lots of amps for sale. Why don't you buy one and then you won't have to worry about tweaking any extra parameters?
 
I love the fact that if I want the sound of a slightly mismatched OT, I can get it with the twist of a knob. No hunting down vintage 1.5" Dagnall or a Drake 1202, I just twist the knob until it feels and sounds right. I love EVERY advanced parameter on the page. Hell if I had it my way, I would convince Cliff to release a Groovenut edition of the firmware that had even more advanced parameters available. I love being able to customize the amps to my own personal taste, but this is after ten years of custom amp design and modification. If I were just picking up the axefx without that knowledge, i would just ignore the advanced parameters page all together and play. Everything in this box sounds amazing. all the tweaking in the world is only going to gain you 10% or so anyway.
 
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