ToneX is blowing my mind…!

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Stainless Steel Frets

Stainless Steel Frets

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Now after 3 weeks of extensive comparisons (400+ captures vs profiles made in same exact amp+cab+ mics) I now 100% sure ToneX is doing a much more accurate in tone and feel than kemper does... it's very disappointing as I did accept those 5% kemper profiles inaccuracy as something that could never been solved by any newer white box tech. I was wrong.

The worse is that the 5% of inaccuracy were my favorite part of my real amp feel (low end and push feel without artificial compression added)

Also the note envelopes and all the nuances of picks attack are a lot better in Tone captures. Palm muting, chugging, funk clean riffs... more amp like.

To me Tone is the best guitar product of 2022 and probably this decade.

Artificial intelligence and neural network training finally got mind blowing results.

I'm also very sad for Neural DSP Quad Cortex who introduced the neural network tech in guitar amp profiling. But they didn't have enough DSP compared to a recent computer to train models and to build the neural network with enough ram memory.

Also IK multimedia has completely written the neural engine with latest Al technology while neural DSP took a open source model from Google.

Now I'm thinking about selling my captures. Have spent 3 weeks 7 hours a day doing my testing. Now I hope kemper and QUAD CORTEX to move forward and enter this great competition, investing in research and development rather than marketing as they did for last years

NOW I love my AxefxIII mk2 which is the best for finding great tones from scratch and far far far beyond other kempers/Quad Cortex for effects!

BUT… imagine if Clifford would spend some brain juice into Neural Network training for some white box side of digital amp recreation.
I mean the main advantage is that it’s very DSP efficient to READ those captures (ToneX captures running perfectly on old MacBook Air!) despite the huge DSP power needed to train the model that could be done in background (that’s what I do on my Mac M1 Pro, advanced capture are taking some time)

Or course i do NOT want amp modeling black box to be replaced by white box. Only to have the option.
Would be ok to spend the same money that on a SLO100 unit to have an AxefxIV « black and white » to get the next AxefxIV ;)

Just a feature request, please don’t be more agressive than needed, I’m just obsessed by tone and my amps. And have not the possibility to run them all the time at decent power amp push volume at my place. Also need to cash out and sell some of my amps.
 
I don't know man, but ToneX doesn't look as great to me as you describe. Not only does the single profile process take about 20-25 minutes in default mode, which is more than I can accept, but with the capture accuracy it also doesn't seem like much of a revolution to me. I've done several captures of my tube amps. The level of gain never matched the real thing, plus it was darker. I just missed the hi-end sparkle. QC is much further along in that regard, if I had to compare it to anything. For one thing, it's more accurate and also the capture doesn't take nearly as long, which is a big plus for me.
 
I watched that video last night (before I saw this thread). I thought the vid was great. (I wished the Axe3 was in that comparison as well :))
I wasn't sure the volumes were perfectly matched, which can definitely skew how you hear the results.
But that video helped me feel more confident since I put my QC on Reverb 2 days ago. For the cost, (and in my opinion) it's fragile, it's only a desk toy for me. It sold last night and it was one of the most satisfying sales ever. I'm on lots of QC FB Groups and the number of units 'bricking' is astounding.
I've said this in other threads as well. Something in the QC's top end is just harsh. Not in a jar off bees way, but when I flip over to my Axe3, there is a relief to my ears....much smoother, no harshness...fuller, etc. I did like the low end palm mute crunch on the QC though.

I may buy a Tonex package just for fun. Seems like I could use my Fractal LB-2 instead of their DI box.
 
BBN said:
I watched that video last night (before I saw this thread). I thought the vid was great. (I wished the Axe3 was in that comparison as well :))
I wasn't sure the volumes were perfectly matched, which can definitely skew how you hear the results.
But that video helped me feel more confident since I put my QC on Reverb 2 days ago. For the cost, (and in my opinion) it's fragile, it's only a desk toy for me. It sold last night and it was one of the most satisfying sales ever. I'm on lots of QC FB Groups and the number of units 'bricking' is astounding.
I've said this in other threads as well. Something in the QC's top end is just harsh. Not in a jar off bees way, but when I flip over to my Axe3, there is a relief to my ears....much smoother, no harshness...fuller, etc. I did like the low end palm mute crunch on the QC though.

I may buy a Tonex package just for fun. Seems like I could use my Fractal LB-2 instead of their DI box.
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AxeFxIII is a stellar product. It’s the only one I didn’t sell and had a consistent honey moon experience. I had many kempers, but have been always disappointed by the high gain profiles… never could keep the real feel of my amps on kemper. It’s not bad for plexi edge of break up tones I must admit but that’s also achievable on AxefxIII (using compression)
Now I feel like AxefxIII is going really serious for big names in industry but many guitar players come at my studio asking for the profiles of our recorded amps+cabs to « keep this tone for other sessions or live » which is stupid, it’s never sounding the same when using in live situation and asking to refine eq and compression 100% of the time.
I would live tell them = ok I’m Neural capture this with our AxefxIV and I’ll send you the FAS captures by mail at the end of the sessions. They would certainly sell their kemper and buy FM4 to read them ;p
Now I already have one session guitarist who asked for ToneX capture of our SLO with his overdrive pedals in front to keep the nice tone. Even the room ambiance is here!
Crazy also to have zero noise compared to our amps without noise gate.
I also think this neural network and « artificial intelligence » gimmicks are essential for new generations. I truly believe it’s a game changer after years thinking it was shitty (thanks Quad Cortex!, thanks Neural DSP aliasing testing on their research paper from their team)
Now I think the MOST POWERFULL device on the market would be able to run those models without audible aliasing (under usual thermal noise of real amps, at least as good as real amp)

I’m also convinced many guitarists aren’t able to use the AxefxIII correctly. Having the ability to capture would open their mind for starting. Myself I had to dig and learn a lot. At first didn’t like it too much. Brett did a great YouTube job though.
 
Stainless Steel Frets said:
I’m also convinced many guitarists aren’t able to use the AxefxIII correctly. Having the ability to capture would open their mind for starting.
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Interesting concept.

I’m not a profiler guy at all. Don’t care; never used one; have zero need or desire. I’ve been a Fractal fan since the early days, and I’m sold on Fractal’s component modeling.

However, I’ve noticed that a lot of younger Metal shredders are all about profilers, especially the Kemper (which I’ve never understood… read above why I wouldn’t “get” it). The Quad Cortex shows up as the new sheriff of Profile Town. Now ToneX steals some of that thunder, but for a lot less and with compromises (e.g., not a stand-alone solution).

A dedicated AFX profiling feature could be the invitation that brings Kemper/QC/ToneX true believers to the Fractal party. Especially if it kicked the other profilers’ asses. I think Fractal wouldn’t do it unless it really did kick their asses.
 
LanceZ said:
Interesting concept.

I’m not a profiler guy at all. Don’t care; never used one; have zero need or desire. I’ve been a Fractal fan since the early days, and I’m sold on Fractal’s component modeling.

However, I’ve noticed that a lot of younger Metal shredders are all about profilers, especially the Kemper (which I’ve never understood… read above why I wouldn’t “get” it). The Quad Cortex shows up as the new sheriff of Profile Town. Now ToneX steals some of that thunder, but for a lot less and with compromises (e.g., not a stand-alone solution).

A dedicated AFX profiling feature could be the invitation that brings Kemper/QC/ToneX true believers to the Fractal party. Especially if it kicked the other profilers’ asses. I think Fractal wouldn’t do it unless it really did kick their asses.
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You totally get my point. I’m pretty sure this neural network stuff is not that hard to bring to the AxefxIII. Surely would worth the extra effort and getting the kemper/QC market.
Of course IK multimedia is working on X-Gear pedal ToneX. It should work in « player » only version to keep the huge DSP need for computers.

BTW now the final decision is in Cliff’s hands. I’m sure he’s reading each thread talking about competition. I’m pretty sure he knows how ToneX works as he knows how QC does. Also pretty sure he’s learning about Neural Network stuff. He’s not a lazy brained dude hahaha
 
I might give this a go just for fun but not expecting much. So far non of these competitors have made me think oh fractal better watch out, in fact just the opposite.

Cliff is so ahead of the game and when others come up with something new, here comes a fractal update that just stomps them out. I don't think Cliff should get into profiling as he should save something for others to try and figure out. But if he ever decided too.......darn! Either way technology has come a long way and so great to be part of it.
 
Heavyplayer said:
I might give this a go just for fun but not expecting much. So far non of these competitors have made me think oh fractal better watch out, in fact just the opposite.

Cliff is so ahead of the game and when others come up with something new, here comes a fractal update that just stomps them out. I don't think Cliff should get into profiling as he should save something for others to try and figure out. But if he ever decided too.......darn! Either way technology has come a long way and so great to be part of it.
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Doing both wouldn’t be that difficult for a fast growing company like FAS, I guess. They could leave behind competition and offering more choice in one box. The ultimate black and white box!
 
sprint said:
hard to say looking in from the outside - there's always opportunity cost, and personally, I would not prefer amp / fx modelling advancement slowing down significantly to accomodate profiling features.
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If, once the modeling is rock solid and they start working on UI stuff, then maybe spinning off some programmer time to bring in some profiling innovation would be interesting. But, by that time most of us will have sold our tube amps so we won't care. :)

Stainless Steel Frets said:
Doing both wouldn’t be that difficult for a fast growing company like FAS, I guess.
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While I'm sure that FAS appreciates the compliment, they're small, especially in comparison to their big competitors. Given their attitude toward the quality of their products and their user support, they probably attract venture capital offers but Cliff seems quite happy with Fractal staying privately owned and lean and mean.

Remember, Fractal has been around since 2006; Fast growth isn't an especially good thing when you want long-term stability. I've worked in several startups, seen explosive growth, the company starts doing well, the venture capitalists show up, the owner/CEO sells out and leaves, and they rape and pillage the company then sell off the remains. I'd rather not see that happen with Fractal.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
If, once the modeling is rock solid and they start working on UI stuff, then maybe spinning off some programmer time to bring in some profiling innovation would be interesting. But, by that time most of us will have sold our tube amps so we won't care. :)
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yes - having been a long time fully invested Amplitube user, I'm already getting a sneaking feeling they've moved focus away from full amp / component modelling over to ToneX profiling (early imo as they've been progressing quite well but still some ways to go).
 
sprint said:
yes - having been a long time fully invested Amplitube user, I'm already getting a sneaking feeling they've moved focus away from full amp / component modelling over to ToneX profiling (early imo as they've been progressing quite well but still some ways to go).
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I never could enjoy playing Amplitube compared to my AxefxIII. It’s nothing close to what even the AxeFxII XL could do.
But I must admit I don’t understand how you can go from Amplitube cheap sounding stuff and directly give birth to ToneX.
My guess is that neural network and ai is something very open sourced and they had an opportunity to move from their Amplitube modeling crappy assets to something revolutionary.
That’s why I believe it’s not that much complicated to do it…

HERE’s an example =



If this random dude can achieve such great results… only god knows what Clifford Chase and his team could do is small effort.
 
sprint said:
was not / would not make the comparison - was speaking above within the plugin realm only


of the many amp sim plugins I own, I find it quite good imo


reality does not necessarily = unconfirmed belief
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Yes maybe you’re right.
Did you check the other dude Neural profiling? How do you find it? Sounds pretty close to me..
 
ok , thx , i loaded it down and installed tonex on my laptop . it sounds nice , but pretty useless for playing in a band .imho
 
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