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Tone Matching

bshaw92

Inspired
I'm curious for those that use tone matching.

1.) Do you notice a substantial difference versus just editing?

2.) Do you find that making eq adjustments on the III and amp afterwards still match up well or is it just that setting?

3.) What if any other reasons would you choose to use tone matching versus just editing?

I come from the profiling world so trying to gather some info on pros and cons etc. Thanks.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The biggest source of inaccuracy in our modeling is the fact that the speaker impedance is unknown. For each model we assume an impedance based on the speaker that is likely to be used with the amp. Even then impedance will vary from speaker-to-speaker. The difference between the assumed impedance and the actual impedance is small but audible.

Tone Matching will correct this error. The amp controls will still behave the same and match up with the actual amp well.

Personally I just edit. I don't find that the differences between the amp and the model make the model any worse, just slightly different.
 

JJunkie

Forum Addict
The biggest source of inaccuracy in our modeling is the fact that the speaker impedance is unknown. For each model we assume an impedance based on the speaker that is likely to be used with the amp. Even then impedance will vary from speaker-to-speaker. The difference between the assumed impedance and the actual impedance is small but audible.

Tone Matching will correct this error. The amp controls will still behave the same and match up with the actual amp well.

Personally I just edit. I don't find that the differences between the amp and the model make the model any worse, just slightly different.
So does that mean it's not a case where the user is able to adjust the impedance value to correct the error?
 

2112

Fractal Fanatic
Personally I just edit. I don't find that the differences between the amp and the model make the model any worse, just slightly different.
I've found when I do a TM I actually prefer the tone I dialed in on the Axe before matching. Chasing the sound in my head seems to yield better results than trying to replicate an existing tone.
 

DLC86

Forum Addict
The biggest source of inaccuracy in our modeling is the fact that the speaker impedance is unknown. For each model we assume an impedance based on the speaker that is likely to be used with the amp. Even then impedance will vary from speaker-to-speaker. The difference between the assumed impedance and the actual impedance is small but audible.

Tone Matching will correct this error. The amp controls will still behave the same and match up with the actual amp well.

Personally I just edit. I don't find that the differences between the amp and the model make the model any worse, just slightly different.
So the speaker impedance curve settings are just an EQ post amp? I thought they also affected how the power amp sim behave in terms of compression/distortion.
 

Piing

Forum Addict
I have always found better results tweaking the AMP block, EQ and the CAB air/room/pre-amp parameters than with Tone Matching.

I've even bought some custom presets based on TM but they did not satisfy me and I never use them.
 
Tone matching is great as a final sheen to get your guitar sat nicely in a mix, if you dont have those 24/7 mixing engineer ears.

I always feel a bit guilty afterwards though!
 

dpeterson

Fractal Fanatic
I use the tone matching to help my electric with no piezo sound somewhat like an acoustic for a few patches. I haven't used much for regular tones, as the firmware advances seemed to make all the effort not worth it in the end.
 

666was999

Forum Addict
Resonances should result in a different ADSR hull curve? If we'd had a tone match tool, that meassures the attack and the release time per frequency, we'd get able to see the resonance frequency in a plot.
Or is it more complicated?
 

bshaw92

Inspired
The biggest source of inaccuracy in our modeling is the fact that the speaker impedance is unknown.
What parameters under the speaker edit would the tonematch account for? If these are minor (only 1-3 items) could you simply adjust these by ear and make an ear-match.

Having the impedance or full speaker response was supposedly the big thing with the (Kpr) profile.....however, the cabinet portion/mic'ing was a make or break it on the profiles. Eventually I just started doing DI profiles only without the cabinet so I could have a pure amp and use whatever I wanted.

Seems like most people try it but don't use the tonematch on a larger scale.
 
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Piing

Forum Addict
I cannot imagine how the knowledge of the speaker impedance could make the Axe-FX III sound better than it currently does :)
 

2112

Fractal Fanatic
I did a quick amp match of my Recto and it sounds spot on to my ears. I actually preferred the tone I could get with the Axe models pre-tone match over the amp, but here's the matched clips anyay.

 

zenaxe

Fractal Fanatic
I did a quick amp match of my Recto and it sounds spot on to my ears. I actually preferred the tone I could get with the Axe models pre-tone match over the amp, but here's the matched clips anyay.

Nice. Man, I'm seriously confused by some of the people in the YT vid claiming they are hearing big differences between the two. Some major group think/hearing with your eyes going on IMHO. LT was playing and he says they sound spot on. :) People in YT gear video comment sections are just bananas sometimes.

Those are insanely close can't even tell when the switches are happening in the mixed clip. Maybe that should be the test... have people call out the time stretches where the two differ and say: this stretch of time (from time marker X to timer marker Y) and this other one are amp A and some other section and the other are B and I like 'B' better. I doubt too any of those folks could even identify the stretches with accuracy.
 

bshaw92

Inspired
I hear less differences on heavier gain amps like that. My guess would be Clip 1 is the III and Clip 2 is the Amp. It sounds like the notes are a little more rounded and bouncy on clip 2 but both of those are too close to worry about.

Clip 3 - Can you publicly swear that you didn't pull a trick and never switch??:cool:

I will listen on some better speakers. What did your non-tone matched preset sound like compared to your tone match?
 

bshaw92

Inspired
Also, from your other TM video reference are you doing more of a DI amp match rather than a Amp-Speaker tone match?
 

bshaw92

Inspired
My guess is around 3:00 you switch back to the tube amp. The difference as I can hear it is a little bit more rigid with the III versus a little more loose/bouncy with the tubes.Would be interesting to hear with and without TM on the same preset.
 
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