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Tone Matching the Internal Cab

voes

Fractal Fanatic
Suppose you have that magic User Cab (http://forum.fractalaudio.com/news/59194-announcing-james-santiago-collection-series-1-axe-fx-ii-cabs-presets.html), and you're afraid to overwrite that User Cab.

In that case you could Tone Match the User Cab.

Just split the signal after the AMP to CAB and to T-MATCH
Then route the CAB to the T-MATCH and select the CAB row as reference source
Hit reference and local and start playing, then hit match.
That's it!

you can use a mixer to compare both sounds (see image). One last note: I've noticed that you need to boost the Tone Match Signal +3dB to get the same level.

This method also has a big advantage when sharing presets on axe-change (watch out for copyright on 3rd party IR's)
 

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MaxTwang

Experienced
Have you tried that? did it work? The routing and and TMA settings look funny. You might have to run a cable from Output 1 to Input 2 and use an Effects Loop if your scheme doesn't work.
 

austinbuddy

Fractal Fanatic
Suppose you have that magic User Cab (http://forum.fractalaudio.com/news/59194-announcing-james-santiago-collection-series-1-axe-fx-ii-cabs-presets.html), and you're afraid to overwrite that User Cab.

In that case you could Tone Match the User Cab.

Just split the signal after the AMP to CAB and to T-MATCH
Then route the CAB to the T-MATCH and select the CAB row as reference source
Hit reference and local and start playing, then hit match.
That's it!

you can use a mixer to compare both sounds (see image). One last note: I've noticed that you need to boost the Tone Match Signal +3dB to get the same level.

This method also has a big advantage when sharing presets on axe-change (watch out for copyright on 3rd party IR's)
Can't wait to try this, had thought about the strong need for this capability in Tone Match...thanks!
 

austinbuddy

Fractal Fanatic
Wow -- It worked pretty well on the new James Santiago preset to use the Eminence Cab IR, using FW 8.01. Not perfect, a little high end definition was lost, but damn close. I know the FW you used (as shown in your jpeg) has a new Hi-Res switch in the Tone Block that might address that... Agree, users need to set the Tone Match block output at 3db to equalize to original cab level/sound. Mixer tied to foot pedal between rows 2 and 3 is great way to compare back and forth.

One thing any forumites who try this have to remember: when you save your Tone Block (new Cab), and then insert it in place of Cab in another preset, remember to set the "Ref Source" in Tone Match to BLOCK instead of ROW -- else you will get no sound.

What is great about this -- your user cabs can follow your presets and you don't have to worry about constantly mapping or re-mapping user cabs to presets.

A BIG THANKS to Voes for this excellent tip and work!!!
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
What is great about this -- your user cabs can follow your presets and you don't have to worry about constantly mapping or re-mapping user cabs to presets.

A BIG THANKS to Voes for this excellent tip and work!!!
+1 !!
 

claham

Experienced
While sounds like a good idea for the ease of sharing presets, wouldn't it not be even better to be able to make the user cab you want to keep uneditable (lock/unlock)? Since austinbuddy mentions something gets lost.
 

voes

Fractal Fanatic
While sounds like a good idea for the ease of sharing presets, wouldn't it not be even better to be able to make the user cab you want to keep uneditable (lock/unlock)? Since austinbuddy mentions something gets lost.
IMO the best solution would be an IMPORT function in the Tone-Match Block, just like the export function.
 

Morphosis

Fractal Fanatic
Not perfect, a little high end definition was lost, but damn close.
Try a sine-sweep from the synth-Block as Trigger-signal for the match (use only voice3 -> sine ->track=off, frequency modified to LFO; time=Peak Hold).
Original Sine-sweep = local; sinesweep through the cab = Reference. (If you have ever done IR Capturing with the Axe-Fx II you`ll know, how a sine-sweep sounds... the synth Block can generate the same sweep, just up AND down ... does not matter)
Use Hi.Res in the TMA Block (1024). Add +3db after matching, like voes say and it should be dead on! No guitar playing needed!

Preset for CAB IR -> TMA attached .... the same way you could create cab Mixes (route up to fourcab IRs with 2 stereo blocks) as TMA match!
 

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austinbuddy

Fractal Fanatic
Try a sine-sweep from the synth-Block as Trigger-signal for the match (use only voice3 -> sine ->track=off, frequency modified to LFO; time=Peak Hold).
Original Sine-sweep = local; sinesweep through the cab = Reference. (If you have ever done IR Capturing with the Axe-Fx II you`ll know, how a sine-sweep sounds... the synth Block can generate the same sweep, just up AND down ... does not matter)
Use Hi.Res in the TMA Block (1024). Add +3db after matching, like voes say and it should be dead on! No guitar playing needed!

Preset for CAB IR -> TMA attached .... the same way you could create cab Mixes (route up to fourcab IRs with 2 stereo blocks) as TMA match!
I like this, great thought. When I did my match I did it on earlier FW that did not have the new Tone Match Hi-Res feature (at least via AxeEdit version am using), so that may be why mine lacked just a touch. Agree this may get better results, but it was still "very very close" I have to say...using synth and hi-res I bet will make it indistinguishable.
 

Morphosis

Fractal Fanatic
@seedoftheday: Nice Video! But I was wondering: In minute 4.30 you say "just a straight" line. And therotical this should be right! Sine-sweep without filtering anything should end in a linear response. But the line on the video is not straight. I was wondering!

Yesterday I´ve done a video tutorial for my german Axe-Fx community, showing how to mix up to 4 Cab IRs and bring the mix into the Tonematch Block! There I figured out, that slowering the LFO Rate will help to get a flatter response! No – a PERFECT straight line!:

Take a look beginning with minute: 9.10 !


A/B Comparison 4CAB IRs vs. TMA Match (with sine-sweep) you`ll can listen to the pure, direct Cubase recording from minute: 14.00

Generating Sine_Sweep (with lowe LFO Rate): starts minute 4.40

OK, Video is in german language, but people, who knows the Axe-Fx should understand everything just by watching and listen to the Axe-Fx sound .... ;)


By the way: Why i prefer the sine-sweep over guitar-shredding as carrier signal, to get the best match, you`ll can see here:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-tone-match/59729-why-i-prefer-using-sine-sweep-instead-guitar-shredding.html#post744682
 
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MaxTwang

Experienced
Pink or white noise works well too. Use Voice 3 in the synth block. Set type to Pink Noise. Set Hi-Cut to maximum. Set integration time in TMA block to 5 seconds or so.
Just did a comparison of sine, white and pink noise and the results were quite different. I TMA'd the Slave Out on a Boogie Mark IIB to the Mark IIC+ model, setting the vol, TMB, master and EQ on the amp and model the same and the pink noise TMA was nearly flat, the white noise was close but too much highs and the sine sweep was furthest of with quite a bit of extra honky mids.

I'll post pics of the TMA results in the morning.

P.s. the pink noise is much more dog friendly than the sine sweep which sends my dogs running.
 

Morphosis

Fractal Fanatic
Test Tone Comparison:

Because of the Input from Cliff and MaxTwang i did testing different Testtones:

- Sine-Sweep [synth, third voice, sine, filter 20KHz, frequency by lowest LFO rate] -> TMA: Avg.-Time: PEAK HOLD
- Pink Noise following Cliffs recommendation -> TMA: Avg.-Time: 5.000
- White Noise following Cliffs recommendation -> TMA: Avg.-Time: 5.000



Interpretation: Using White Noise or Sine-Sweep seems to give me identical results: The Matching Curve of two PEQs (Hi and Lo-Cut) in series looks identical frome Sine-Sweep or White Noise as testtone. Matching these two carrier signals against eacht other result in a really flat response. Not so the pink noise .... hmm ...

So, in short: I think in the future i will do it with the white noise! Two reasons: Much more ear-friendly and less work (no need to modify anything to LFO....)
 
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