Tone match of Mesa 295 Power Amp?

vinnyburns

vinnyburns

Experienced
Is there a tone match available of just a mesa 295 power amp or is there a way to do one? There are no amps to choose in the axefx that I think would be a similar starting point. I only want the colour of the power amp but not any mesa boogie preamp with it.
All the best.
Vinny.
 
....Or, VHT Classic etc. I do own a Mesa 295 (to try and tone match), it's just not at home at the moment.
 
For ease of recording, I want to use my CAE 3+SE preamp into the Axefx. The Axe will do noise gate and volume pedal then straight into cab block and out into DAW. The only thing missing is the sound from the power amp.
The setup will be a little more involved than this but this is the basic setup.
Any ideas of how to tone match the Mesa 295 part of the chain?
 
The hard part in the 'Amp Matching' exercise would be choosing a local amp block to use - maybe a Tube Pre amp block to just keep the local source as neutral as possible and use Pink Noise as source and reference to get your TM?

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Amplifier_models_list#TUBE_PRE

https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Tone_Match_block

You could also keep the real CAE3 and Mesa 295 combined like normal and use a suitable DI load box - or 2 - or 2 channel one if you need both Mesa channels (think the 295 has separate standbys doesn't it? So really only one channel out needed) to load down and DI the Mesa's output into the AxeFX - maybe put a FXL block first in the grid and feed in the DI(s) using the Input 2 FX returns in the back of the Axe - maybe a bit too cumbersome (and noisy with the Mesa 295 fans blowing) for what you're trying? Plus expense of load boxes with line level DIs - but then again you're probably going to need one at least to TM the normal way.

I'm not really into TM so might be talking complete BS .... but from what I know about it I tried .... and I'm proud to say I'm not proud, so someone can shoot me down in flames with a better solution if they want :)
 
Thanks for the answer. I have a Rupert Neve RNDI that has a speaker through on it to tap into the actual sound of the 295. Just can't for the life of me think of a way of isolating the 295 part of the system.
 
That studio pre might be something to try though. Sounds like it is designed for what I want except for the sounding just like a Mesa 295 bit.
Better than nothing though and worth a punt.
Hopefully Metallica or U2 will need something like this in the future then it will appear in the list of options :) :) :)
 
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Is your preamp much different than the CAE in the Axe Fx?

I seem to remember that the power amp model used with that amp model was a Mesa.
 
unix-guy said:
Is your preamp much different than the CAE in the Axe Fx?

I seem to remember that the power amp model used with that amp model was a Mesa.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am using specific settings on the 3+SE and as the taper on the knobs is not exact on the AxeFx the variables to get the exact same sound are massive.
Think they used a Mesa 2-90 for the CAE in the AxeFx. Not as nice as the 295.
Missed having a 3+SE so much that I bought another even though it is in the AxeFx. I cannot get the model to sound as good.
My idea is to now rebuild a Bradshaw type system around the 3+SE, a Fulltone TERC and then the AxeFx taking care of everything else.
The TERC will be in the loop of the AxeFx. The AxeFx output WILL go into my Mesa 295 and then into Marshall 4x12's.
I am happy with the cab modelling in the AxeFx and it would be so much easier to just be able to take the outputs of the AxeFx straight into my DAW for a silent recording sytem with no amp, cab or mic's.
That way, in my control room, I would only have the 3+SE, the AxeFx, the TERC and the MFC101 and a few presets that are setup for this mini recording rig.
I know there will never be specific poweramp modelling in the AxeFx. It's been descussed before that rivals may be able to reverse engineer what Fractal is doing etc. I just want a Tonematch of that pacrticular Mesa Simul Class poweramp. Not bothered about it ever appearing in the AxeFx menu although for people like me who want to use a preamp like in this situation, it would be ideal to have it included.
 
I might try to do a Amp Match using the Tube Pre as local and Mesa fifty/fifty power amp as reference source using Pink Noise to make a TM and then can try plugging my old JMP-1 and see what happens .... though I had a big volume drop last time I played the JMP-1 /Mesa rig ... so one of them might be in need of servicing (suspect it's the Mesa's OP transformer as the JMP-1 was serviced not so long ago back at Marshall in Bletchley)

The fifty/fifty is only a straight 6L6 power amp though and cold biased so it's not a huge amount of 'character' added at moderate volumes ....... a simul class 295 is different beast altogether
 
maxdown said:
I might try to do a Amp Match using the Tube Pre as local and Mesa fifty/fifty power amp as reference source using Pink Noise to make a TM and then can try plugging my old JMP-1 and see what happens .... though I had a big volume drop last time I played the JMP-1 /Mesa rig ... so one of them might be in need of servicing (suspect it's the Mesa's OP transformer as the JMP-1 was serviced not so long ago back at Marshall in Bletchley)

The fifty/fifty is only a straight 6L6 power amp though and cold biased so it's not a huge amount of 'character' added at moderate volumes ....... a simul class 295 is different beast altogether
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So, what are the steps to perform this with Pink Noise?
Thanks again for the replies.
 
Well you've the DI speaker thru box already sorted very nicely it seems - so if you follow the set up steps in the wiki article (starting at "How to perform Amp Matching" section) here: https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Tone_Match_block

Your 'local AxeFX amp' will be the Tube Pre with all values at noon - which at those settings is supposed to be the equivalent of a neutral tube power amp

You then need to scroll down a bit to the bit where it says "When using a power soak" - as you're using a attenuated down DI taken between the 295 and speakers rather than a mic pre and mic in front of speakers.

If it works at all then your Tube Pre amp block and resulting TM together 'might' constitute a match of the 295 ... so bung your CAE3 into rear Input 1(s) - your Chorus into the AxeFX FX loop returns and treat the Tube Pre + TM blocks as the power amp 'model' and stick your preferred Cab IR after it somewhere

........ if it doesn't work just remember I live in the deepest darkest countryside far far away and you'll waste even more time than the Amp Matching attempt took trying to find me.;)
https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Tone_Match_block
 
maxdown said:
Well you've the DI speaker thru box already sorted very nicely it seems - so if you follow the set up steps in the wiki article (starting at "How to perform Amp Matching" section) here: https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Tone_Match_block

Your 'local AxeFX amp' will be the Tube Pre with all values at noon - which at those settings is supposed to be the equivalent of a neutral tube power amp

You then need to scroll down a bit to the bit where it says "When using a power soak" - as you're using a attenuated down DI taken between the 295 and speakers rather than a mic pre and mic in front of speakers.

If it works at all then your Tube Pre amp block and resulting TM together 'might' constitute a match of the 295 ... so bung your CAE3 into rear Input 1(s) - your Chorus into the AxeFX FX loop returns and treat the Tube Pre + TM blocks as the power amp 'model' and stick your preferred Cab IR after it somewhere

........ if it doesn't work just remember I live in the deepest darkest countryside far far away and you'll waste even more time than the Amp Matching attempt took trying to find me.;)
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Hahaha. Thank you so much. So, this will be tomorrow's task. Really appreciate it.
All the very best.
Vinny.
 
vinnyburns said:
Hahaha. Thank you so much. So, this will be tomorrow's task. Really appreciate it.
All the very best.
Vinny.
Click to expand...

Were you able to recreate the power amp tone through a tone matched eq curve and the tube pre amp model? I'm interested, because I also have a preamp lying around that I'd like to try in that constellation, though I'm currently using the Two Notes Torpedo Wall of Sound III plugin with the power amp and cab simulations with it. It doesn't sound bad, but the Two Notes power amp sims are just not cutting it for me and I feel that the Axe's power amps could do a much better job...
 
Slammin Mofo said:
Were you able to recreate the power amp tone through a tone matched eq curve and the tube pre amp model? I'm interested, because I also have a preamp lying around that I'd like to try in that constellation, though I'm currently using the Two Notes Torpedo Wall of Sound III plugin with the power amp and cab simulations with it. It doesn't sound bad, but the Two Notes power amp sims are just not cutting it for me and I feel that the Axe's power amps could do a much better job...
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No, unfortunately not. Spent a week chasing my own tail. At the end of the day, it's a pre amp model and not a power amp model.
Back to using a real 3+SE, Mesa 295, Marshall 4x12 and SM57 :)
 
vinnyburns said:
No, unfortunately not. Spent a week chasing my own tail. At the end of the day, it's a pre amp model and not a power amp model.
Back to using a real 3+SE, Mesa 295, Marshall 4x12 and SM57 :)
Click to expand...

Have you tried the Two Notes Wall Of Sound III plugin? The latency it adds is actually pretty reasonable, so you should be able to play with it in real time in your DAW, but that's about the only somewhat authentic power amp simulator and IR loader out there. There are some others offered by Kazrog, but those are worse than the Two Notes stuff, in my opinion. Maybe it will suit you better than it suited me in that regard.
 
Slammin Mofo said:
Have you tried the Two Notes Wall Of Sound III plugin? The latency it adds is actually pretty reasonable, so you should be able to play with it in real time in your DAW, but that's about the only somewhat authentic power amp simulator and IR loader out there. There are some others offered by Kazrog, but those are worse than the Two Notes stuff, in my opinion. Maybe it will suit you better than it suited me in that regard.
Click to expand...
No, just going to carry on with what I have setup for this album now. It's all working and sounds good. Thanks for the info though. Really appreciate it. Will definitely look into that Two Notes plugin if it has power amp sims once I have finished up with this album.
 
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