tone match issue...help?

2

200man

Power User
Hi folks...
When I purchased the axe ii xl+ back in early 2015, the first weekend I did a tone match.
I think the axe version with the machine was around v18, pre-quantum.

I took a jazz tune with just guitar as the reference and my gibson l5 as the source.
The tone match ended up like this:
tm_original.jpg


I have a new l5 now and went to do a tone match and the results are mysteriously inverted...always.
So, it must be something bone-headed...but:

I made a simple patch with a tone match block:
tm_preset.jpg


The front of the axe with the ref and local signals looked like this:
tm_reflocal.jpg


...and the resulting tone match is insane...it looks inverted:
tm_new.jpg


Like I said...I must be doing something wrong.
the local is just the guitar into the front panel instrument jack and the reference is left channel input 2 in the back.

Thanks in advance for any advice! :)
 
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Are you sure that you were plugged into the Input 2 - Left? That is what the match would look like is the source was blank?
 
Yes sir, the 3rd pic above shows the ref signal and local...and then the last pic, the resultant strangeness.
I'm hoping someone can help because this is making my head hurt.
 
What is baffling is that I purposely recorded a "bassier" reference sound to show that if the frequency information in the reference signal is predominantly lower than the local info, you would expect the tone match to try and lower the upper end but alas....no
 
I changed the mode from offline to live and although fractal recommends "off line" as opposed "live" when using recorded material the manual says sometimes it sounds better. The tone match sounded a little better but again it clamps to the hi end and still seems inverted somehow.
 
I'm not sure if there's anything unusual in the examples you posted. The curves don't tell exactly how much content is above where they fall off the grid. If local has less, the match will boost that range.
 
Can you look a little closer? :)
the reference has less upper freq info than the local...it should pull down, no?
[...and it sounds very bad]
btw, thanks for replying!
 
The weirdest of all is that I pulled the reference snippet of guitar playing into logic and looked
at its spectral response. Although this is just a snap shot in real time I can tell you there was no information above 2500Hz.
tm_spectrum.jpg
 
Can you indicate where you think something's wrong on any of these graphs? They look fine to me.

There's harmonic content above 2500 Hz in the reference clip.
 
Bakerman said:
Can you indicate where you think something's wrong on any of these graphs?
Click to expand...
tm_reflocal.jpg

Again, the high end of the frequency range for the reference is consistently below the local.
So why does the tone match try to amplify the high end of the frequency range?
I can tell you the resultant tone is terrible, and that is the bottom line.
 
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200man said:
Again, the high end of the frequency range for the reference is consistently below the local.
So why does the tone match try to amplify the high end of the frequency range?
Click to expand...

The range where reference is below local corresponds to this part of the match:

kyGOTiP.jpg


The reference clip has a lot of white noise. That's probably the main reason for the high-freq. boost beyond that. I wouldn't use that clip for a tone match.
 
Thanks for replying...I do appreciate it.
I'm thinking to run this patch in Logic and hit the high end with eq and observe.
Still, there's some Euclidian conundrum in the software. :)
 
Exaggerated high end could mean that you're distorting the input of the Axe-Fx. Check signal levels.
 
Thank you sir...
Two tests I'll run tonight:
1) lower the reference signal level
2) if that doesn't work...run in logic and hit with eq hi shelving
 
ran all the tests..absolutely no net positive effect...
also, i tested the reference being delivered via axe usb as opposed to input 2 left from an rme ufx.
i very carefully monitored the input levels to the tone match block.
i also tried a new snippet...very clean and i placed it in logic and strapped an eq to shelve the high end.
again absolutely no effect...
first here's the new snippet:


here it is in logic:
tm2_logic.jpg

here's a good looking reference and local signal:
tm2_reflocal.jpg

here's the final tone match:
tm2_new.jpg

doesn't look or sound good...something is wrong
I'm kinda dead in the water here...maybe someone can take a jazz box and do a tone match with these snippets...i dunno...
 
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Have you tried using white noise as the local signal? The synth block can generate it.
 
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