Tone Match amp difficulty

D

dvon88

Member
Hey all,

I'm new to the Fractal world and just got a 3. I'm trying to tone match a bunch of my heads and running into serious difficulty. No matter what I do, the tone match sounds like absolute garbage. I've been trying to do this by DI'ing the head, both with and without a cab simulator (using the same IR on the Axe as in the DAW) and it just sounds horrifying. Even without using a cab sim it creates this super harsh mid tone that sounds like the speakers are exploding and also a ridiculous amount of treble.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Especially a very in depth, step by step, hold my damn hand through the process of plugging everything in and performing a tone match. I've read the manual, watched several videos (keep up the awesome work Mr Leon Todd! @2112 ) but I can't seem to get it to sound like anything other than crap. I'm probably missing some stupid simple step.

Apparently I can't upload an audio file to the forum here even though its like 5 seconds long, but I have audio of my reference file and the tone "matched" file I can send through an email or something.
 
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dvon88 said:
Hey all,

I'm new to the Fractal world and just got a 3. I'm trying to tone match a bunch of my heads...

Apparently I can't upload an audio file to the forum here even though its like 5 seconds long, but I have audio of my reference file and the tone "matched" file I can send through an email or something.
Click to expand...

I believe you may need only 5 posts before you can include attachments, so perhaps make a few generic posts and you’re good. Cheers
 
2112 said:
What's your signal chain?
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Using the built in Tone Match template.

In1>amp>cab>out1
>out3

Out 3 to amp in, amp out to Torpedo Captor (without cab sim), back in to Axe. Obviously this does not run the cab sim. I've tried changing the input to USB as well and recorded the raw head DI and then added a cab sim on top of it and it sounds fine, but as soon as I try to match it, the match sounds absolutely disgusting.

Been trying it both with and without IRs on my reference signal.
 
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dvon88 said:
Using the built in Tone Match template.

In1>amp>cab>out1
>out3

Out 3 to amp in, amp out to Torpedo Captor (without cab sim), back in to Axe. .
Click to expand...

1) Seems your signal chain description above is missing some blocks. Where is the tone match block in your virtual signal chain? We need an accurate representation of your virtual chain.

2) How your Tone Match block is set?

3) How is your Reference and Local graphs after capturing? In your case of amp matching, they are expected to be different from each other and both very different than a straight line.

You have to make sure the Tone Match block is having both signals properly. I think those answers will help us to understand what could be wrong. Some Axe Edit prints would help but if you can't upload, you would need to type it ;)

Also, don't know how much you know about it, but tone match is just a "eq match", so you will need to match the amp knobs as close as you can by ear before start the tone matching process to get good results.
 
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George Koerich said:
1) Seems your signal chain description above is missing some blocks. Where is the tone match block in your virtual signal chain? We need an accurate representation of your virtual chain.

2) How your Tone Match block is set?

3) How is your Reference and Local graphs after capturing? In your case of amp matching, they are expected to be different from each other and both very different than a straight line.

You have to make sure the Tone Match block is having both signals properly. I think those answers will help us to understand what could be wrong. Some Axe Edit prints would help but if you can't upload, you would need to type it ;)

Also, don't know how much you know about it, but tone match is just a "eq match", so you will need to match the amp knobs as best as you can by ear before start the tone matching process to get good results.
Click to expand...

My tone match block replaces the cab block as I saw in @2112 YouTube video. I use the cab block and dial the amp in with the same IR that I use on the DI amp head so i'm getting as close as possible to the same setup. And yes, I know it's just an EQ match so i'm imitating my real head as close as possible.

The tone match reference charts have looked all sorts of different ways. Sometimes the reference chart is crazy with ridiculous EQ spikes, but last night I had it looking almost exactly like the local signal. So I thought I had it and I hit match and the tone was horrendous.
 
Also, I've tried running the tone match from USB and recorded my amp both with and without a cab sim and sent that to the Axe for reference, neither created a good match.
 
dvon88 said:
My tone match block replaces the cab block as I saw in @2112 YouTube video. I use the cab block and dial the amp in with the same IR that I use on the DI amp head so i'm getting as close as possible to the same setup. And yes, I know it's just an EQ match so i'm imitating my real head as close as possible.
Click to expand...

OK, if you replaced the cab block by the TM block, you are matching the amp without the cab block. You'll need to insert a cab block after the TM block to make it sound properly. Did you do that?
 
George Koerich said:
OK, if you replaced the cab block by the TM block, you are matching the amp without the cab block. You'll need to insert a cab block after the TM block to make it sound properly. Did you do that?
Click to expand...

Yes, I did that as well. Inserting a cab block just accentuates the trash sound, its really frustrating. Like I said it sounds like the treble frequencies are off the charts and there is this hyper pronounced mid range or something mainly on palm mutes that just sounds like the "speakers" are exploding.
 
dvon88 said:
The tone match reference charts have looked all sorts of different ways. Sometimes the reference chart is crazy with ridiculous EQ spikes, but last night I had it looking almost exactly like the local signal. So I thought I had it and I hit match and the tone was horrendous.
Click to expand...

Yes, those graphs should look similar considering you pre-matched the amp knobs by ear. Anything other than that (like those pikes you mentioned) suggests a connection issue, bad DI/loadbox or wrong TM block signals setup.

EDIT: by "those graphs should look similar", I mean, reference and local graphs should look similar. The matched curve is the difference between them.
 
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George Koerich said:
Yes, those graphs should look similar considering you pre-matched the amp knobs by ear. Anything other than that (like those pikes you mentioned) suggests a connection issue, bad DI/loadbox or wrong TM block signals setup.
Click to expand...

Yeah it isn't all the time though. I had it last night without the crazy peaks and it looked really good and smooth, but still sounded awful after the match.

@FractalAudio an in depth video, like total noobs "hold your hand" kind would be superb! Both DI method and traditional microphone method would be greatly appreciated
 
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I'm sure this is the wrong thread to post this (tried searching around and I'm sure it is on here somewhere) but.... Is there a way to tone match with TWO mics? I like to use the Fredman technique with two SM57's using my API's and/or Neve modules. First time for me looking into digital/Fractal stuff in recent years. Might pick up a III soon. I like the fact that I can actually use my preferred preamps to tone match as well. I read the III manual today and it shows that you can tone match with dual inputs if you do the Mic + DI route. Not sure if I can do the same with two preamps instead. Or capture two separate profiles and then blend them. Thanks all:)
 
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