Tone is in your fingers debate

Another quick story. Many moons ago, in the mid 70s, I was jamming with Craig Chaquico. We were in a motel room. He was on break from the Starship. We were friends. He started playing Jimi Hendrix' Voodoo Chile on my Gibson SG, unplugged. It sounded AMAZING. Sound just like Jimi. He didn't need any amp or wah, or distortion.
 
I teach at home where I have both my Axe Fx IIXL+ and a AX8. The student takes the AX8. No matter what setting I give them, they sound like them. And I sound like me, good or bad. Obviously, if you want to get that last 25% to sound LIKE somebody, yeah, you'll need to dig into your tool chest. But if your hands can't do it, the gear certainly won't.
 
My experience with it is, I was playing through my rig with my guitar, sounded great. I then handed it to a friend, and the low end left. It was a direct relation to how he muted with his palm and fretting hand. Guitars sound different when played without a pick, this is obvious. Picks of different material also sound different. IMHO. YMMV.
 
Another quick story. Many moons ago, in the mid 70s, I was jamming with Craig Chaquico. We were in a motel room. He was on break from the Starship. We were friends. He started playing Jimi Hendrix' Voodoo Chile on my Gibson SG, unplugged. It sounded AMAZING. Sound just like Jimi. He didn't need any amp or wah, or distortion.

exactly - or even better - pick up an acoustic guitar... nothing to help you there... just you and a piece of wood and metal...
 
I hate the word tone. It's so over used that it means nothing anymore.

I think the T-word is a combination of so many factors it becomes impossible to chase. There the gear. It most definitely plays a role in it. Amp, guitar, pedals, the very cables and power supplies being used all contribute to the overall mix. And then there's the player. Any player who has been around for a while develops their own playing style. String and pick preference, style of picking, as mentioned the weight of the player, even your way of thinking, all such things make your own style. Which is often why its so hard to nail another player's tone. Your very own playing style now works against you.
 
Yeah, it depends on the interpretation on the word tone, if one is thinking of the actual note and the way it interacts with other notes it would be in the fingers. If the tonal balance and bloom of the note beyond expression of the hand of course this would be in the rig. Everyone is right depending on perspective.
 
I think it's a bit of both and depends on context. Some jobs require certain tools, but behind every tool is the hand of the craftsman. Pretty hard to play in a Slayer tribute band with a Rickenbacker 12 string, blackface twin reverb, and no pedals. Simply not the right tools for the job, no matter how good of a player you are. It's the meeting of player and gear that brings the magic. An artist needs a medium to create art.
 
I think it's a bit of both and depends on context. Some jobs require certain tools, but behind every tool is the hand of the craftsman ...
That’s my experience, although I won’t claim craftsman’s skills. Some people play styles of music where vibrato and finger pressure are barely noticeable, and some are at the other extreme. I play in a covers band, and experience both. Some of our songs need me to play straight 8th or 16th notes, bang on the beat, with no incidentals or mannerisms. Others are dead unless I slide or bend in and out of notes, and use strong vibrato.
 
It's a silly idea to say tone is any one thing. There are not even sufficient language to describe tone properly which is why we have made up words like Keerang and quack. If people can hear the brand of capacitors in their treble bleed than I'm sure the length of fingernails will also be audible.
 
To be sure, making EQ changes, etc. affects the overall tone greatly, but it's the individual touch of the player that give the various nuances we hear from different players. Certainly how hard you pick, where you pick, if you use a pick or fingers, what kind of pick, and how light/hard you fret, how fast you release notes, how you vibrato notes, etc. is what brings out personality....their 'tone' signature.

A player with a great 'touch' will be able to get a decent tone/sound out of anything (it might not be easy or satisfying to play though), the opposite isn't true IMO.

Like many here, I've heard several players all try the same rig/guitar without changing anything and you can clearly hear differences in 'tone'.

I really think great 'tone' does start with the hands but the entire ecosystem obviously contributes to the overall big picture. It is a bit of both...
 
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Nuno's amp looks like a collaboration between Tesla and Dracula. I'm digging that.

He confirms same thing I said earlier: You can have THE rig, THE ultimate tone. But it's the expression in the fingers that speaks to listeners and tells them who is playing the rig.

This is a good example... so is it better to say "tone is in the fingers" as that is just one aspect of the word as it relates to this topic and not the complete picture? or is it just easier to say the players technique or style is what makes it sound good and keep the word tone out of the equation?
 
This is a good example... so is it better to say "tone is in the fingers" as that is just one aspect of the word as it relates to this topic and not the complete picture? or is it just easier to say the players technique or style is what makes it sound good and keep the word tone out of the equation?
The use of the word TONE for Guitar is a relatively recent phenomenon as it relates to amps. When I started tone was more limited a definition than it is now. As a player, student, teacher I rarely ever heard people obsessing over tone. That ALWAYS came later. Learn your scales, parts, chords, leads. But then tone meant the hands. Like classical guitar. The term is often used. But it refers to the hands, pressure, vibrato, picking, dynamics. That’s where tone STARTS.
 
The use of the word TONE for Guitar is a relatively recent phenomenon as it relates to amps. When I started tone was more limited a definition than it is now. As a player, student, teacher I rarely ever heard people obsessing over tone. That ALWAYS came later. Learn your scales, parts, chords, leads. But then tone meant the hands. Like classical guitar. The term is often used. But it refers to the hands, pressure, vibrato, picking, dynamics. That’s where tone STARTS.

See so you must understand what I'm getting at...

I guess this is the biggest problem for me because all of what you have mentioned boils down to technique or style pressure, vibrato, picking, dynamics. The use of the word tone is incorrect as it is a word that has to broad of a meaning in the music world it has become very slang like in the way it's used today.

My OCD does not like this and I have to use very specific words to describe what is going on as not to be confused to which part of the sound that is being talked about.

Example: The pinch harmonics you did in that solo were killer vs The tone you got in that solo was killer.

If this were applied across the board when talking about music and especially guitar it would make things a lot easier to comprehend.
 
This is a good example... so is it better to say "tone is in the fingers"?
No.
No.
No.
No.
Paint is not in the fingers of the painter
Clay is not in the fingers of the sculptor
Fire is not in the breath of the flame throwing artist
And tone is not in the fingers of the guitar player

Paint, clay, pastel, chalk, stone, ice, tone...each is a medium. The artist manipulates the medium. In our case, with hands/fingers.

What is about this simple, simple concept that isn't sinking in?

I give up...
 
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See so you must understand what I'm getting at...

I guess this is the biggest problem for me because all of what you have mentioned boils down to technique or style pressure, vibrato, picking, dynamics. The use of the word tone is incorrect as it is a word that has to broad of a meaning in the music world it has become very slang like in the way it's used today.

My OCD does not like this and I have to use very specific words to describe what is going on as not to be confused to which part of the sound that is being talked about.

Example: The pinch harmonics you did in that solo were killer vs The tone you got in that solo was killer.

If this were applied across the board when talking about music and especially guitar it would make things a lot easier to comprehend.
I understand what you're getting at, but I don't agree. Tone means multiple things. For ME tone is primarily in the fingers. There are many things that make up tone: EQ, compression, color pedals, plugins, wah, distortion, gain, breakup, etc. But those are of secondary importance. You can't GET there if your hands can't make the proper sounds.

Technique is a part of tone. I can play Sweet Home Alabama. If I can't play it well or convincingly it doesn't matter what settings I have on my Axe. It's going to sound like crap. If I can play the hell out of that song on an acoustic guitar, it almost doesn't matter what my amp is set at, it's going to sound cool. It might not sound like Lynard but you'll recognize it and it'll sound great, if you play it right. If your timing is right.
 
Again, it depends on context. Some tones rely more heavily on the gear being used than others, especially high gain ones. Try doing loud, sustained Dimebag style harmonic squeal bombs on an acoustic guitar. Some tones are closely linked to the gear used, while others are more player or technique based. It's never one or the other, but some combination of both.
 
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