To build or not to build, that is the question...

piofusco

piofusco

Inspired
Since I got my Axe II, MFC and CLR my next upgrade is going to be a guitar. While my 1989 Stratocaster plus satisfies most of my needs, I need a second guitar. After a lot of research, I have narrowed down my specs into a list (roasted maple neck, stainless steel fret wire, yadayada.) I could go on...but I am not sure where to go from here.

I have considered a bunch of different options in order to buy/build this guitar

1) Buy parts through Warmoth/Musickraft/etc
- Would have to have most of the parts dressed and put together by a luthier (more money)
- Ultimately, would probably be cheaper than ordering a guitar like this from Suhr (or any comparable company)
- If I was in a pinch, the resale value of this guitar would not come close to what I put into it
- Would be fun :D
- guitar might not turn out as intended..

I have heard people both rave and demolish Warmoth. People complaining about bad wood and stability issues. Others saying they are happy with their purchases.

2) Ordering guitar from Suhr (or comparable company)
- the most expensive option
- would have a better resale value
- no sure if I could have the guitar built to my spec AND be under a reasonable budget
- unlikely I'd be able to play the guitar before I bought it

Suhr makes bad ass guitars. But I live in Auburn, Alabama. None of the local music stores around here carry instruments of this calibre. I would prefer to play my guitar before trusting internet ratings to make my next purchase. I respect the name and understand at this day and age you gotta spend a lot of cheese to get a guitar of such quality.

3) Having a guitar custom built with a luthier in a city not so far away (Atlanta, Nashville, Birmingham...). I have heard of people ordering custom made acoustics more than I have electrics. Why this is, I do not know. If anyone has ever had anything like this done, any information would be fantastic.


Ultimately, I am going to have to make the decision myself but this forum has given me tons of help in the past. Sound off your thoughts please!
 
Option 4... Travel to somewhere with a high density of high end guitar stores (L.A.?) and spend a whole weekend playing all the guitars. If you are thinking Suhr, I'm sure they would be happy to point you towards some stores that stock their guitars. Best done with a guitar playing buddy, not a non-musician spouse :)
 
Suhr makes great guitars no doubt but you don't need to break the bank to own a great guitar. Putting together a parts guitar is a crap shoot if you don't know what you want or like. Used custom guitars can be a good deal but you have to wait for the right one with your specs to come along.

I wouldn't rule out Carvin for a custom build, you get most everything you want and it won't cost you 3K+ to do it and you get a 10 trial period as long as you stay within the options that Carvin offers. Another custom maker to check out might be GMP, awesome guitars totally under the radar in the 2K+ range not really a super strat type guitar builder but well worth the look if your in the mood for something that not to many others have. Another Strat style builder that comes to mind is zion guitars, their Bent T is pretty cool.

As to resale it is al relative and is about the same percentage wise with "most" guitars. I would focus more on what you want in the guitar then resale value unless you just like flipping gear. Personally between PRS and Suhr I think they are both in a race to see who can make their guitars more expensive.
 
FWIW - I've built a couple of Warmoth guitars from parts, and I have also built a couple of guitars from 'bitzers' (parts lying around from other cheaper guitars). Far and above the Warmoth guitars turned out so much better, mainly because I was careful to choose quality parts.

Downside of DIY builds is time. Not so bad if you HAVE the time and the motivation to build. But between a young family and my own business etc., time is a rarity for me these days. Upside is that it is a HUGE learning experience. I've learned SO much about guitar setups etc. by doing my own builds. The feeling of accomplishment and reward is fantastic, but be read for the gruelling bits that are not so fun either - like fret levelling and crowning etc.

I've also had a guitar built for my by Josh Grove at Protocaster Guitars, and it is an OUTSTANDING guitar. Ironically, it cost me LESS to get Josh to build me a guitar than to get the Warmoth parts and do it myself, even not factoring in my time costs.

I guess I was very lucky in the custom build department. I've heard plenty of horror stories, but my custom build couldn't have gone any better.
 
To the OP: I just went through the exact same thing. I was thinking as you described. Warmoth route, used Suhr or Custom Suhr? I spent about a year checking eBay and Craigslist everyday. I wanted my dream super strat and I couldn't find anything. New or Used. I came close to just settling on a couple of used deals (mainly because I was desperate). I'm glad I didn't.

I sold my main guitar that I never bonded with and put a big chunk down on a custom classic Suhr. I had all my specs ironed out from the Warmoth idea so I was ready to roll. 6 to 8 months later and a few more peices of gear sold, it show's up. That was last Friday. After everything was said and done it paid off big for me.

It's scary having a guitar built that you planned on paper but won't have a chance to play before hand. I was so relieved when I played it for the first time. My homework paid off (with a bit of luck as well). I'd def give it a 9 of 10.

image.jpg
 
Nice Guitar.. I'm ordering a Suhr next week... hopefully I'll have it before I get married in April...
 
If you can afford buying a new Suhr (or similar brand- I like LsL), I would look into shops that carry Suhr and offer a return period. Over the years, I've found I like the pro built guitars with the specs I prefer over anything DIY like Warmoth, etc. Just my opinion though.

I have a friend who is constantly buying parts and building mostly teles and he's put 2-3 together (out of 20 or more that I've played) that are fantastic, although he prefer different specs as far as neck shape, fret wire to me. He sales the ones that don't turn out quite to his liking either as a whole or parted out. It works for him, but he like tinkering and building and he plays his #1 (mid 80's early version "52 RI Tele) almost exclusively for gigs/sessions.

There's no guarantee though... I've played far more high end guitars that I didn't care for than those I did. Almost all the Suhr's I've played didn't work for me, but it just depends on what you're looking for or like. Luckily there are a sh!t ton of options these days.
 
Interesting dilemma. You can definitely save a big chunk of cash going the Warmoth route rather than going with a Suhr. Some people think its fun building their own guitars. It's kind of like building your own PC. I could go to Newegg and order the parts to build a PC much cheaper than if I bought an Alienware machine with similar specs.

One thing about Warmoth is that you can put something together that's truly your specs.

That said, I'm a big fan of actually playing the guitar before I put down money on it. I've made the mistake of dropping a load of cash on a guitar sight unseen and then selling it a year later for a 50% loss after I just didn't bond with it. I've seen friends lose big money buying expensive instruments, such as a $7,000 Custom Shop Les Paul, that turned out to be duds. More money does not always equal an instrument you'll bond with better.

The plus side to the Suhr is that if you decide it's not for you, you can return it (if you buy from a place with a return policy) or at the very least sell it. I'm a fan of buying used guitars. Someone else has already taken the depreciation hit, and you can usually sell it for what you paid for it. Suhr is a well-regarded name and you could easily sell it if you decided you'd rather have another guitar. A Warmoth at the end of the day is still a partscaster and will have limited resaleability.

Case in point, when I was selling my AxeFX Ultra I had a guy offer a partscaster in trade. The partscaster had great specs, but at the end of the day it was a partscaster. So, I declined. Had it had the name "Suhr" or "Fender" or "Gibson" on the headstock, I would have been more receptive.

Yes, the partscaster could have been the best Strat in the universe, but it's all about perception of value.
 
Just had an interesting discussion with a friend about this. Something for all to think about.

I mentioned to him that I was thinking about buying a Suhr, possibly this model. It's the exact build I want, maybe not the paint job though
My Suhr Modern Custom Roasted Birdseye Maple Neck With Axe FX II - YouTube

He sounded completely unimpressed. He had never heard of Suhr. To my surprise, he shot down most of the players that use them. Jazz fusion (or what have you) is not his thing at all. This puzzled me greatly. I knew all the specs I wanted in a guitar - surely the smartest route would be to custom order it. He didn't agree.

He said, "Look, you already have a guitar rig that does everything under the sun extremely well. Eventually, you are gonna have to make some choices." He can be kinda hipster about gear, but I agree with his point: there does not exist a guitar as versatile as the Axe Fx II, trying to find guitars that do one purpose well seems more realistic.

I then challenged him and asked, "When you change basses in a show, you probably have to fiddle with the knobs to get the EQ right. If I changed during a show, I'd probably have to have a patch written for every guitar."

His response, "I haven't changed basses in a show in like 4 years. But I get your point."

Perhaps spending a fortune on a custom build is not the route I need to go.
1) I must play the guitar before I buy it
2) GREAT POINT about the return policy, obviously I could change my mind about a purchase
3) Plenty of other custom build options to look into
4) This should be fun an enjoyable, but I shouldn't make any half measures
5) Patience


I'd still like that Suhr though :mrgreen
 
Interesting thread. I've been looking for my dream strat and tele for over a year on eBay and tgp. Decided to go with Suhr. Found my tele about 2 months ago and it is amazing. Pretty much perfect in every way. Really really fine instrument. Still looking for the strat, but it will be a suhr too. I'm happier buying used because that way if it is not the right instrument for me long term I can sell it for good resale value. SS frets are my number one non-negotiable spec. So +1000 on the used suhr.

PS, your bass player friend has no clue about high end guitars if he doesn't even know about Suhr's reputation. Also, I'm not affiliated with Suhr, just extremely impressed and satisfied.
 
Knowledge is power. Try as many as you can before buying. I'd gladly buy a $700 used parts caster IF it was everything I need in a guitar. Good luck on the hunt! \m/
 
I'd take your bass player friend with a grain of salt. Everyone has their opinions, and everyone has their biases (including me!).

Having an AxeFX does in no way diminish the value of a guitar you bond with. The AxeFX plus a versatile guitar you bond with is like a good steak and a fine merlot.
 
I've built four Warmoth guitars. I build them so I get exactly what I want. I've been playing long enough to know what that is. One of those Warmoth guitars is the best guitar I've ever owned and I've had custom shop Fenders and pretty high-dollar PRS's. In the end it was playability and feel. What drew me to Warmoth to begin with was the various neck shapes. I like very large necks but not big shoulders on the profile. The 'V' boatneck was the answer. I could not find an on-the-rack guitar with all the features I wanted so I started from scratch and built it from the ground up. The build quality from Warmoth is very high. I finish them myself with nitro. All four came in at less than $1000. Of course, all labor supplied by me.
 
Anything "custom" will basically have the same resale value as firewood. A used Suhr, while expensive, will hold its value pretty well. I'd go for a used Suhr, _especially_ if money is a concern, if you can find one for a good price.
 
Option 4: Find a Great Playing Cheap Guitar and Retrofit with Suhr Pickups!

The following was my personal Suhr have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too solution:

I was going to buy a Suhr Modern. I love the Suhr sound that Goven, Landau, Henderson, Loeb, Aldrich, etc., get and an HSH configured Modern GG Signature model (with push/pull pots for coil splitting) seamed like the best solution to satisfy my Suhr tone cravings.

Just before pulling the trigger I shared my desire to buy a Suhr Modern with a very financially-shrewd CFO/guitarist friend of mine. Being a bean counter by nature (CFO) he said, "nah, there are just too many lesser known cheaper brands out there that are killer guitars for half or a quarter of the price."

So I thought, "huh, OK, lets see" and Googled "custom made USA guitars"

Page 2 of that Google search result led me to the US Masters guitar website, but its guitars were similar in price to Suhr's guitars. Then I spotted a "deals" sub link (that I can not longer find on the homepage BTW) to a lower-priced line of US Masters guitars, including the LG507 model, that they designed in the USA, but have made in China (before you say "really? China?" think Apple's iPhone/iPad "designed in USA - made in China" model):

Masters Design Guitars designed by U.S. Masters Guitar Works

So I bought the HSH configured LG507 model (I think they might be Ibanez clones) because they had the features I wanted (e.g., HSH, Floyd, reliable Wilkenson tuners) AND an ebony fret board (I absolutely love ebony) AND they were on sale for $270/each WITH a premium hardshell case included to boot (I thought, "wow, I'm in"). They currently go for $479 (still a great value for the $$$ if you are not too concerned with resale value - U.S. Masters makes great guitars, but they are a little known brand - see plexi59's post above).

So at that price I figured I would just buy one and strip out the electronics and load 'em up with Suhrs. The guitar itself was fantastic - the electronics - well not so much (but I always intended to throw them out anyway).

My find-a-really-good-playing-guitar-and-retrofit-with-Suhr-pickups option worked out so well that I immediately bought another LG507, but loaded that one with EMG Active-X pickups and a battery box.

Retrofitting these guitars with Suhr and EMG Active-X pickups (and also with push pull pots and a brass block for the Floyd) increased my per guitar cost from $270/each to about $750/each (I did the labor myself).

But, I saved a ton of money by not buying a Suhr Modern (approx. $2800-$4000 MSRP) and I had the pleasure of retrofitting these two guitars myself (a really fun project that every guitarist should go through at least once IMHO).

Bonus, I was much happier with the touch and feel (action, setup, body tone, etc.) of my Chinese-made LG507 guitars designed by U.S. Masters than the Modern Suhr's I tried out at Sam Ash in NYC (and I do very much like Suhr guitars - I am not bashing their guitars). Now I have two LG507 guitars with the same touch and feel that I love, but with very different tones - one Suhr - one EMG Active-X. Very cool!

In fact, one of the world class instructors at Dweezilla 2013 (who shall go nameless for obvious reasons) tried my LG507 loaded with the Suhr pickups and immediately said "this literally plays itself!" And he is no stranger to Suhr guitars, so I could not be happier in hindsight.

If you're handy with things like swapping out electronics, rebuilding tremolos and setting action/intonation and think to yourself "hey, that might be fun" you might want to consider doing a similar search to find a quality retrofit/rebuild solution using Suhr pickups that appeals to you at the right price point. Then reconsider all the possibilities you outlined above, because your other options above are absolutely fine as well.

But, I would definitely consider including Suhr pickups in your solution because your tones - from clean to crunch to metal - will absolutely shine through your Axe FX II :encouragement:
 
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smcrosby said:
In fact, one of the world class instructors at Dweezilla 2013 (who shall go nameless for obvious reasons) tried my LG507 loaded with the Suhr pickups and immediately said "this literally plays itself!" And he is no stranger to Suhr guitars, so I could not be happier in hindsight.

If you're handy with things like swapping out electronics, rebuilding tremolos and setting action/intonation and think to yourself "hey, that might be fun" you might want to consider doing a similar search to find a quality retrofit/rebuild solution using Suhr pickups that appeals to you at the right price point. Then reconsider all the possibilities you outlined above, because your other options above are absolutely fine as well.
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Dude. Freaking cool story. POST A PICTURE!

I feel your story might be the exception though, going that route seems quite fishy :|

As I was reading this, I did think, "hey that might be fun!" I would love to put my heart and soul into a guitar and truly make it my own. I am currently studying to be a computer software engineer, so naturally I love trial and error and learning new things.


plexi59 said:
Anything "custom" will basically have the same resale value as firewood. A used Suhr, while expensive, will hold its value pretty well. I'd go for a used Suhr, _especially_ if money is a concern, if you can find one for a good price.
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Very insightful. I totally agree.

Ben Randolph said:
I'd take your bass player friend with a grain of salt. Everyone has their opinions, and everyone has their biases (including me!).
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He is one of the most talented musicians I know, but with that talent has always brought a particularity with gear. When I first told him about the Axe Fx years ago, he was just as unimpressed. For whatever reason, he has been impressed with it lately. Might've been due to the fact that he saw the advanced parameter page in the amp block. To each his own I guess.

Ben Randolph said:
Having an AxeFX does in no way diminish the value of a guitar you bond with. The AxeFX plus a versatile guitar you bond with is like a good steak and a fine merlot.
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You hit the nail on the head - an instrument is more than just a bunch of specs. In my quest for the holy grail, I hope to remain sensitive to my gear intuition (ex: this instrument feels great, this instrument feels like a cod). A suhr might be awesome because of x, y and z but if you buy a name and specs without that "spark" you could be disappointed down the road (financially, musically and emotionally).
 
I only have a Warmoth custom neck made for one of my Tele's, but it's a really good one.
I have two Suhr Classics, one S and one T, they're both stellar and at least on par with anything I've played from the Fender CS.
But the best guitars I know are built by master luthier Joerg Tandler (formerly Morgaine Guitars), he does EVERYTHING by hand and the quality is absolutely amazing. I have a 60's style Strat (he calls it "Mintage") and in some weeks my LP-style ("Beauty") will be finished. His prize is in the same ballpark as Suhr, maybe even a bit cheaper... He's in Germany though (my luck ;-) ).
 
To chime in, I was considering getting a Suhr Modern, but for me it was too expensive, so I made a custom strat from Warmoth with the toppings I wanted instead. Here's what I think:

Buying a Suhr (or more or less luthier built guitar):
Pros:
- High quality
- almost completely any toppings (I think suhr offers a custom instrument through retailers)
- should have a return policy if buying through a store
- very good resale value
Cons:
- expensive
- may take a long time to get your hands on (I think about a year when I asked a quote for custom PRS24 once...)

Now for Warmoth:
Pros:
- medium to high quality, at least on par with USA made Fenders/ gibsons, maybe not custom shop though (can't comment on suhrs as I don't own one :( )
- all your toppings, down to fretwire (Stainless super jumbo is awesome.... hehe)
- almost any finish
- could be had for less than $2000, depending on body/ neck, I got a custom strat, rear rout for about $1500 with everything on a stock, finished body (quilt maple top, red dye)
Cons:
- NO RESALE VALUE... but this shouldn't matter if you choose to keep it
- no returns or test outs
- may require pro set up (when I put mine together, I had to get the truss rod adjusted, and then the FR nut shimmed due to the string gauge + Jumbo frets)


All in All, it will be a personal decision based on what you place most importance on. For me, its difficult to constantly pickup a $3000+ guitar and play it at home, as I would be scared to drop it or do something stupid - Especially with a set neck!!! (yes I live in slight fear when I pick up my LP or C24), so for me a bolt on neck was a preference for future-stupid-proofing :)

Anyway, both are great options!
 
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