To all the IR Vendors

Tahoebrian5

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
IR choice is the single hardest thing to get a handle on in the Axe for me. I would just like to throw an idea out and you guys can take or leave it, or flame me for an idiot. The new Ownhammer players pack format is a big step in the right direction Imo, if it went one step farther in this direction it would be really great. More specifically, for each type of speaker, the different mixes named fat, full, forward, etc are great. What would be better is if once you decided which one of those was closest to what you wanted, you could then go to a folder of very similar mixes to really dial it in. For example the Fat mix is great but just a tad too wooly in the bass, you could scroll through a bunch of different Fat mixes that went from bright to dark maybe. Anyway I just wanted to leave my 2 cents. I don't have time to learn how to mix IR's well and it's almost like I had to just get lucky to find the right IR. Even if my method above is flawed maybe someone more knowledgeable can come up with a more scientific method to help us normal folk navigate the libraries.
 
Ownhammer already does this in their standard packs they sell on their site.
Each mix has 11 variations numbered from 00 - 10 going from bright (00) to darker (10).

412-RECTO_V60_Files-Mixes.png
 
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I'd like to see things go back to the old way - where we have neutral (ultrares) IR's and use mic models in the cab block and be able to move them around ourselves til we got the perfect spot. Seems like it would be so much easier than loading all these IR's and clicking thru to find one.
 
brianv4 said:
I'd like to see things go back to the old way - where we have neutral (ultrares) IR's and use mic models in the cab block and be able to move them around ourselves til we got the perfect spot. Seems like it would be so much easier than loading all these IR's and clicking thru to find one.
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AX8 doesn't have mic models in the cab block.
 
The Mic parameter is basically obsolete.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/two-new-cab-packs.101733/page-6#post-1230098

FractalAudio said:
Using a "neutral" IR with a simulated mic does not sound the same as an IR using that mic. It simply can't. Neutral mics like the Earthworks TC series are nearly omnidirectional. They operate by using a very small aperture as compared to traditional mics that have effective apertures orders of magnitude bigger.

The physics of this is very complicated and I wouldn't even want to begin to try to simulate it. I can only say my personal experience is that so-called neutral IRs just don't sound good.

Now, if you're looking for far-field IRs then an Earthworks would be my mic of choice but it's difficult to capture far-field IRs. It requires a very large space (like an airplane hanger or outdoors) and specialized techniques (ground plane measurement) and most people don't have access to these.

I will add that if I were to design a Cab block today I wouldn't even include a Mic parameter. I NEVER use Mic simulation anymore. I simply find an IR I like and EQ as desired.
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For every person who asks for more variations of mixes, there seems to be another that asks for a more streamlined selection of ir mixes. So for me, this becomes do I alienate half my customers to please the other half? How many variations per mic combination would be a good number?
 
dr bonkers said:
For every person who asks for more variations of mixes, there seems to be another that asks for a more streamlined selection of ir mixes. So for me, this becomes do I alienate half my customers to please the other half? How many variations per mic combination would be a good number?
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There are two camps here. One camp—the majority, I think—wants to zero in on a couple of gems without having to go through a long search. The other camp could happily spend hours experimenting with different colors on the easel.

I think you can satisfy both camps with a judicious choice of folder structure. At the top level, I see three folders: Favorite Mixes, Favorite Single Mics, and The Kitchen Sink. The Favorites folders would have no more than ten IRs each. Inside the Kitchen Sink folder would be subfolders, categorized as you see fit.


Of course, all of this assumes the author has limitless time to shoot and mix IRs. :)
 
I vote for the simpler side approach! I have IR's that I've never heard yet (and I haven't got the collection that some do). Why? Cryptic naming conventions, way too many files. I really haven't developed a great workflow for auditioning them (especially en-masse), and I'm probably lazy. If I had 100 goto's instead of thousands of IR/WAV files, then I'd be more interested in pursuing IR's.

So what am I asking for:

  • More human-friendly naming conventions
  • Fewer files, more 'all star' IR's
  • A dead easy auditioning tool
Just one customer's .02
 
I've said it before, and I will say it again. IMO I think Kevin @ownhammer has perfected the structure in it's full blown cab packs they sell on their site.

They give you the quick start folder, which contains Kevin's interpretation of the most balanced picks from the mixes, and single mics in the offering.
The quick start folder contains 35 files total. For most people this folder would be all they ever need.
Then for those of us who want to experiment, there are the mixes folder, and the single mic folder. Both utilize the same scheme. All mix IR's are labeled 00-10. 00 being the brightest, 10 being the darkest. Same with the Single mics.
So if you utilize the quick start folder as your starting point, and say you select a single mic IR that you really like, say the SM57 - 05, but maybe wish it had a little less top end. You can then navigate to the single mic folder and select the SM57 - 06 or 07 to darken it up a little bit. to me it streamlines the process so much because you pretty much know what to expect from the IR based on the numbering system.

And as stated previously. 99.9% of the time, the IR's contained in the Quickstart folder are the go to from the collection.

And as far s a dead easy auditioning tool? It really doesn't get any easier than Cab Manage in Axe edit.

for the record, I have zero affiliation with Ownhammer, I am simply a devout user of Ownhammer IR's. IMHO they are the best out there hands down. I guess you could say I am an ownhammer fan boy! Lol
 
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plyall said:
I vote for the simpler side approach! I have IR's that I've never heard yet (and I haven't got the collection that some do). Why? Cryptic naming conventions, way too many files. If I had 100 goto's instead of thousands of IR/WAV files, then I'd be more interested in pursuing IR's.

So what am I asking for:

  • More human-friendly naming conventions
  • Fewer files, more 'all star' IR's
  • A dead easy auditioning tool
Just one customer's .02
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That is exactly what I do with my collections. My naming convention is probably the easiest that I've seen, and I have been a customer of Kevin, Andy, and others. I wanted to offer something that you could look at the front panel of your modeller or ir loader and be able to quickly tell what you have loaded without referring to some other chart for translation.
 
Rex said:
There are two camps here. One camp—the majority, I think—wants to zero in on a couple of gems without having to go through a long search. The other camp could happily spend hours experimenting with different colors on the easel.

I think you can satisfy both camps with a judicious choice of folder structure. At the top level, I see three folders: Favorite Mixes, Favorite Single Mics, and The Kitchen Sink. The Favorites folders would have no more than ten IRs each. Inside the Kitchen Sink folder would be subfolders, categorized as you see fit.


Of course, all of this assumes the author has limitless time to shoot and mix IRs. :)
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Well, I don't have limitless time, but I will see what I can do to implement these types of changes to my current offerings and the new cabs on the way.

Thanks for the input. This really helps.
 
I think most of the answers you're looking for can be found in the PDF document that most cab packs have. They'll give you information on how to navigate the pack and define the file names. For instance, my mics are labeled A-H which corresponds to the position around the speaker. Then I have lower case "b" for bright (closer to the cap) and "d" for dark (further away from the cap). So if you like to run your amp with neutral settings, try the Balanced Mics. If you like to run your amp with brighter settings, try the Dark Mics, and for darker amp settings, try the Bright Mics.

For mixes, I don't think that a single recipe works for each cab, and you get the best results by working with mics that showcase the character of the cab and compliment each other. My mixes are simply labeled Mix 1 - Mix xx, because they vary from cab to cab. Just choose the one that sounds the best for your application.

To audition, Axe-Manage Cabs is really easy to use and can help you cover a lot of ground very quickly.
1. Set your Cab Block to Scratchpad 1
2. In Axe-Edit, click Tools and select Axe-Manage Cabs
3. Click "Browser" in the top left corner (make sure you select "Show" so you'll see an empty window below "Browser")
4. Click "Open Directory" and choose the folder with the IRs you want to audition. The IRs will be listed in the Browser window.
5. Click on an IR and it will send it to the Scratchpad. If you like it, hit your "F" key and it will mark it as a favorite.
6. Once you've marked the ones you like, click on "Browser" and scroll down to "Show only Favorites." This will give you the list of all of your favorite IRs.
7. Click and drag the IRs into your user slots and start shredding.

Hopefully this helps, and I hope you find what you're looking for. Finding the right IRs for your hands will take your Fractal experience to a whole new level. It's worth going through the audition process to find the gems that work for you. Good luck!
 
+1 on what Justin @York Audio said. 5 minutes fine tuning the right IR can save days of tweaking a preset to sound just right. With IR's you have so much more control and in the end you'll get a more natural sound than using EQs in weird ways to dial out something that could've been fixed early on. Also I think us IR producers would run out of adjectives if we wanted to describe all the possible sound variety. :)

That being said... what you're asking for is being done as we speak on the Fractal store page. THERE WILL BE A SAMPLER PACK for the "more expensive" packs with limited options. This is sort of a tryout for how well it will be received. :) If it does well we will continue this approach in future as well.

The problem with limiting options is that you like or don't like the options and base your opinion on the full cab pack based on just a small glimpse of the tonal variety. I have four Mesa 4x12 cabinets in my studio right now. Out of those 16 Mesa V30 speakers only two sound relatively "the same" and those two are not the same Mesa V30 type. (one is the old one and one is the new one) All my Cab Packs come with all the speakers included in the packs (which is not the case for most IR products out there) so that small glimpse you get is not the best basis for making a decision on whether a certain pack is good for you or not, however it will kind of show you what you can expect.

I think it's good to remember that IR Cab Packs are super cheap products. Guitar players spend that amount of money on strings, pedals, straps... and all kinds of stuff that don't really affect your guitar sound at all while a high quality IR pack can turn even a bad modeler to something super realistic sounding. That being said there seems to be a new IR producer everywhere I look these days... it's reasonable to assure the IR quality before purchasing a pack for sure.
 
York Audio said:
To audition, Axe-Manage Cabs is really easy to use and can help you cover a lot of ground very quickly.

Hopefully this helps, and I hope you find what you're looking for. Finding the right IRs for your hands will take your Fractal experience to a whole new level. It's worth going through the audition process to find the gems that work for you. Good luck!
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THANK YOU!!!

I have not been able to figure out the audition thing (the key was show/hide) so I've never been able to quickly go through all my IR's. I'm re-converting everything and hopefully this helps me finally get these beasts under control!
 
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