Tired of this bass flubbyness...

JoeyBTL

Inspired
I just recently read the thread posted by Warrior on a similar issue I've been having so it inspired me to make one of my own instead of jacking his. It seems for a while now I've have this odd flubbyness to my patches. It is less on tighter higher gain models but seems to be a lot more prominent when I take a clean amp and put something like an 808 in front of it. So it's not on a certain IR or amp specifically. I hear it whether I'm going straight into my mac via USB, output to my Mackie speaker via XLR, or output to the power section of my Fender combo amp via guitar cable. I'm coming to the conclusion that something is off somewhere a long the line but don't know what. After reading the thread I mentioned I just came across this video:



It sounds awesome and he put that patch on Axe Change. So I loaded it up and I definitely hear a difference between the video and whats coming from my setup. I'm on the newest Quantum beta and I'm not sure what firmware this patch is from but I've been having this problem for a while now.

http://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?preset=3618

I made a recording to show whats going on. So first its an standard Fender Strat on the single coil neck pickup (neck pickups on any of the guitars I try make it worse, for obvious reasons), then goes to my PRS Santana SE with humbuckers switching between both pickups, then still on the PRS with the bass on the preset down to 1 switching between pickups, then staying on the PRS with the bass back up to but with a highpass filter set around 300 Hz. That last part is what really irks me because its obviously taking a lot of the bass frequency out but you can still tell something funky is going on. I used both guitars to show the differences here, especially since the video showing the preset is done with a tele, then the humbucker guitar emphasizing what I'm hearing.



I'm very happy to answer any questions anyone has or try any suggestions. I have tried some obvious things and a couple things I've found from different threads but I haven't gone as far as doing a full system reset. If you guys think that will help I'll give it a go. Thanks!
 
I am guessing you are pretty advanced user so I apologize if I am stating things obvious to you.
The Fender amps have always allegedly been a little Bass heavy it seems and this has been an issue discussed here for awhile.
I am sure you have tried all of the usual things like adjustment of Input Trim and Input Drive especially with humbucker guitars, using Low Cut, Bass EQ, etc.

I actually think this issue has really improved in recent FWs. I really like the AXE cleans now.
I really don't do that much tweaking anymore of the low end even on stock presets.
Yes the neck pickups can be a little woolly, but that is kind of the way they can kind of sound in real life with humbucker guitars especially.

I just picked up a Helix recently out of curiosity and it is quite the other direction out of the box. Very lean and too bright due to for some unknown reason they do not EQ the high cut on CAB blocks.
Almost unusable with stock settings.
When the CAB block is EQ'd, however, the amps sound very very good.
 
The flub is caused by too much low end going into the amp input. Use the cut switch (under the bass control) and low cut in the amp block to reduce the amount of low end at the amp's input until the flub is gone. If it's then too thin sounding, add bass back after the amp input.
 
Ahh okay, that makes sense. I tried the bass cut which seems to alleviate some of it. But what would be the low cut in the amp block, just using the GEQ page and taking it down around 63, then turning the bass knob up? Or would a different way work better?
 
The bass cut does the job pretty well for the strat (could still use some adjusting) but the PRS is still not good, note definition is still not there.
 
Lkdog sorry I didn’t see your comment before, but I do understand what you’re saying. I know that they are a little bassier and I do take that into account. But I guess I get caught up when I see something like the video above the get to try the patch and it doesn’t sound very similar, mainly because of the bass. I know I’m not using his tele, but a Strat is close enough to get the idea.

I have tried those things you mentioned as well and then do help but since this problem can be spread across multiple cases, that’s why I was thinking it might be a further issue. Another example would be a patch I have with the ODS100 with a drive in front of it. Same flub.

Also does it not seem odd that after putting that filter removing a lot of the bass frequency, the sound still has some sort of weirdness to it?
 
but the PRS is still not good, note definition is still not there.
Put a Filter block first in line and set it for high-pass. Don't be afraid to run the frequency all the way up to 500Hz, if you have to. Just experiment with where you lose the flub, but still retain some beef.
 
I see one potential problem..... that preset appears to be over 2 years old..... Have you tried resetting the Amp block?

Yea I figured it was an old one, but didn't think much of it since its a persistent problem. But I did just give that a try and still the same thing is going on.

Also for another discussions sake, I've recently been after some Twin tones because of things like hearing Joe Bonamassa's sound with just a Les Paul straight into the amp and also hearing that the solo tone from Hotel California is a narrow panel tweed amp, and I have always loved that tone. Joe's tone has such bite to it and is very clear and has great note definition. When I go to do that with this 5F8 model, I do not get anything that impactful. So if I turn the drive up, theres the flub again. Has anyone gotten a JB type tone out of just using an amp and cab block?
 
Put a Filter block first in line and set it for high-pass. Don't be afraid to run the frequency all the way up to 500Hz, if you have to. Just experiment with where you lose the flub, but still retain some beef.
I'm going to try this as well. It came to mind when mr_fender mentioned about the amount of bass going into the input. I'll experiment with that. Thanks!
 
Alsooo if anyone would like to load up that patch and record something with some similar guitars for comparisons sake, it’d be great to see if they’re getting the same results right off the bat.
 
This was done with a FW that was 2 years ago? Have you tweaked it at all?

I took 2 seconds, went to the cab block, and cut low end to around 100 and the preset sounded good. It actually sounded best around the 130 range on my Strat on the neck PUP.

Try that and report back.
 
Alsooo if anyone would like to load up that patch and record something with some similar guitars for comparisons sake, it’d be great to see if they’re getting the same results right off the bat.
I have a PRS Custom 22. If I have time tomorrow, I'll try it out.
 
Use the low cut in the amp block itself. It's in the advanced parameters. It's a first order (-6 db per octave) filter that cuts the bass going into the amp. No need for an external filter block out front unless you want a different filter slope. The Bass knob in the amp tone stack will depend on the particular amp model chosen. Some tone stacks are very early in the circuit like on Fenders and Boogies, while some are later in the circuit like Marshalls. The earlier in the circuit it is, the more running the bass knob high will cause flub. Of course it depends on how much bass your guitar and pickups have to start with. The graphic EQ in the amp block is located either before or after the power amp section of the model. Either way it should not contribute much to the flub. You can also use proximity in the cab block to add some low end thump if needed as well. There's a few older threads here on the forum about pre gain EQ vs post gain EQ that can explain things a bit more.
 
Try that and report back.

Yea I had just done a quick amp reset and had the same issue. I will try that with the cab block as well. I do usually do that with most of my presets for good measure but didn’t mess with this one as much in that way.

Mr_fender that’s all great information for me! I appreciate that. I am definitely going to mess with those parameters tomorrow. I’ve read through a lot of the wiki regarding this stuff but I’m not always as savvy in where to start when I’m trying to solve an issue or tweak a tone. I try and keep it simple so I don’t go down the rabbit hole of knob turning but mostly because I try to focus more so on playing the guitar haha.
 
With me just listening to your recording and not reading any other info, it just sounds to me like the output signal is too hot. Not sure how you are monitoring/recording this but that's my take. Where is your output 1 set at?
 
With me just listening to your recording and not reading any other info, it just sounds to me like the output signal is too hot. Not sure how you are monitoring/recording this but that's my take. Where is your output 1 set at?

Currently, and also when I recorded that clip, its at about 6 o'clock. So pretty much almost off.
 
That suggest that there's something downstream that's running way too hot.
I'm not sure what to check. I get this issue with multiple monitoring situations, out via XLR, out via 1/4", and USB straight to my iMac recorded with Logic.
 
I'm not sure what to check. I get this issue with multiple monitoring situations, out via XLR, out via 1/4", and USB straight to my iMac recorded with Logic.
Something downstream has much more gain than you need/is way too sensitive. With USB, the output knob has no effect on level.
 
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