Tips and tricks for using Axe Fx with IEMs

[barhrecords]

Adding my 2 cents here. I play in a few bands, one of which uses in ears and I go direct to FOH with my AX8. No amp on stage. It's not really a great experience for me I have to admit. Nothing can compare to the sound of an amplifier (pushing air, sound) and I've been working with our sound guy to get a "true" guitar tone through the in ear system. It's improved over time, but not quite there yet. I find that MOST of the presets I've created using the return loop of my amp (and sound killer), don't sound authentic at all through the in ears. Gain settings aren't very good (they sound thin and piercing) and I have to fix the EQ on most presets to get something I can work with through the in ears. So it then begs the question, does the tone coming through FOH sound worse or better after I make adjustments to suit the in ear sound? We get the usual nice feedback "sounds great" and so other than some phone recordings I don't have a reference to answer that question. Our sound guy is excellent, but that doesn't mean he cares what the guitar really "sounds" like other than balanced in the mix.

So, while I'm pretty new to using IEMs and see the benefit, as a guitar player there is a lot lacking. I know running stereo and using dual driver in ears has improved things for me a great deal (I use Shure 425s). But I'm really hoping I can eventually have a better experience now that I've made the investment. I plan to get custom molds eventually as well, but don't know if that will actually solve my issue of not hearing an authentic tone through them.

Any thoughts????

The silent stage is the culprit not the in ears.

The physical interaction of sound and your guitar creates a feedback system that enhances the tone and the feeling when playing.

Without that interaction, it feels anemic.

 

[vangrieg]

Every time I read a thread like this, I sort of feel something is wrong with me.

For some reason I don't mind the immediacy of sound in my IEMs, I LOVE it. I hear myself so much better, without reverberation smearing details, that I now kind of hate reverbs in general.

I also absolutely don't mind mono.

What does disorient me a little is the confusion caused by what I call latency disconnect. When playing without IEMs I hear sound from various sources which are at various distances, and also reflections from various surfaces. This causes a total mess but this mess is what's called live sound, and somehow my strange brain adjusts to it easily.

When using IEMs, however, only the strongest external sounds register well, and low frequency vibrations. These do not create a continuum with my IEM mix like regular stage noise does, but rather appear distinctly at wrong times. Now THAT took a while to get used to.

 

[mwd]

I hear the master mix in my IEM. We gig in stereo. I have a feed for subs, tops and IEMS with very little special settings except for less volume. I still use my Ultra live and the sound is stellar.

 

[unix-guy]

So another tip here (which I think I posted in another thread) that really made a big improvement for me in terms of enjoying the sound more:

Early Reflection Level in the Reverb block.

I found this wiki page mentioned in another thread, and it really helped me.

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/gen1/index.php?title=Radley_Reverb_tips

Try it out!

 

[RichR]

I know this is an older thread, but I was wondering if anyone has a solution to this IEM problem...

I have a lead boost set at 2.0db upper mid boost and an additional 2db total volume boost (both through a filter block), which is exactly correct for the band sound at FOH, but it's overwhelming in our IEMs. Since the boost is coming directly from the Fractal, the gain can't be separated between AUX and Mains on the board (Presonus Studiolive). As the guitar player, I can handle it in the IEMs, but the rest of the band complains that the guitar is killing them during leads.

Anyone ever have this issue? Is there a solution?

Thanks

 

[Tommy Tempest]

I know this is an older thread, but I was wondering if anyone has a solution to this IEM problem...

I have a lead boost set at 2.0db upper mid boost and an additional 2db total volume boost (both through a filter block), which is exactly correct for the band sound at FOH, but it's overwhelming in our IEMs. Since the boost is coming directly from the Fractal, the gain can't be separated between AUX and Mains on the board (Presonus Studiolive). As the guitar player, I can handle it in the IEMs, but the rest of the band complains that the guitar is killing them during leads.

Anyone ever have this issue? Is there a solution?

Thanks

You must have something set wrong because your board can handle proper monitor mixes. We have 4 separate monitor mixes to IEMs and stage monitors. Each instrument is adjusted separately to balance the sound to the IEMs and monitors. So in your setup, turn down the volume on each player's monitor send. Make sure your AUX sends are on pre-fader, then use your assigned send knob on the guitar channel to turn down the gain. Also, no sure about the Presonus, as I have a Behringer x32, and use Bus 1,2,3,4 for monitor sends. I use compression on the monitor Bus sends, set a certain way to kill any spikes in sound.

 

[Tommy Tempest]

Every time I read a thread like this, I sort of feel something is wrong with me.

For some reason I don't mind the immediacy of sound in my IEMs, I LOVE it. I hear myself so much better, without reverberation smearing details, that I now kind of hate reverbs in general.

I also absolutely don't mind mono.

What does disorient me a little is the confusion caused by what I call latency disconnect. When playing without IEMs I hear sound from various sources which are at various distances, and also reflections from various surfaces. This causes a total mess but this mess is what's called live sound, and somehow my strange brain adjusts to it easily.

When using IEMs, however, only the strongest external sounds register well, and low frequency vibrations. These do not create a continuum with my IEM mix like regular stage noise does, but rather appear distinctly at wrong times. Now THAT took a while to get used to.

Use an ambient stage mic, only going to players with IEMs. Set the proper level to taste, and all of a sudden you hear stage and crowd in your mix. Big rock shows have them mounted low on the mic stands pointing to the crowd.

 

[Severed]

Use an ambient stage mic, only going to players with IEMs. Set the proper level to taste, and all of a sudden you hear stage and crowd in your mix. Big rock shows have them mounted low on the mic stands pointing to the crowd.

Not only big rock shows, Once I tried using them, I always use them when using IEM's no matter if the room is 25 people or 5000 people and could never go back to not having them.

and yes this is an old thread and I've come up with a very satisfying method for my IEM mix when using them.

I was not satisfied ever with my monitor mix, so the "if you want it done right do it yourself" came to be. To solve that I started using my Behringer 1204USB mixer.
- I then use 2 ambient mics on either side of the stage
- I use a TC Helicon Voice live Create pedal to split my vocals so I get a mono feed with effects to my mixer while also sending a dry mono to the FoH board.
- I use the 2nd set of output 1 of my Axe FX II so my guitar feed is direct to me,
- I ask for a mirror of the FoH mix (usually Stereo) without my guitar or vocals.

The 1204 works perfect as it has 4 preamps and is a 4 bus mixer, so In this I get a full stereo complete "live" mix in which I can post mix the 4 stereo feeds (Ambient Mics, my vocals w/ effects, Axe FX, FoH) and post EQ individually to taste and send those to my my Carvin IEM transmitter. It's also nice have compressors and limiters on the feeds so you never get blasted.

What I end up with is like listening to a produced live DVD quality mix where I am right in the middle of it and actually playing in it

I still subscribe to having this all figured out before performing and not giving it any attention once you start playing, as IMO the focus is on the performance and entertaining your audience.

 

[RichR]

You must have something set wrong because your board can handle proper monitor mixes. We have 4 separate monitor mixes to IEMs and stage monitors. Each instrument is adjusted separately to balance the sound to the IEMs and monitors. So in your setup, turn down the volume on each player's monitor send. Make sure your AUX sends are on pre-fader, then use your assigned send knob on the guitar channel to turn down the gain. Also, no sure about the Presonus, as I have a Behringer x32, and use Bus 1,2,3,4 for monitor sends. I use compression on the monitor Bus sends, set a certain way to kill any spikes in sound.

Thank you for the replies!

We actually do have the monitor mixes separated for each musician, everyone on stereo ears (six guys using 12 aux mixes). Aux sends are pre-fader, but post EQ and compression (Setting Pre-2 on the Presonus) and always with ambient mics on stage. To guard against guest FOH guys, I have the fractal set up so the board is basically flat with no EQ or compression on guitar. On rhythm playing the guitar level is correct in everyone's mix, but on leads there is an additional 4.5db of sustained gain coming to the input of the mixer on the guitar channel. I need to do this because we often run without help at FOH to ride my fader on leads. I also run sound for other bands and it's the same issue FOH guys always have with keyboard players turning up the volume knob on the keyboard because they can't hear themselves, not realizing the DI signal is being boosted at the same time, therefore affecting all the monitor mixes and FOH mix. I haven't tried compressing the AUX, so I'll give that a try...but I'm thinking that although compressing the AUX will prevent blasting out their ears, the mix is still out of balance in the ears vs FOH during leads. As you recommend, maybe lowering the guitar feed a few db in each mix would be better than what is happening now. That way the guitar ear mix will be slightly low during rhythm and slightly high during leads

I've heard that some higher end boards have a separate gain "freeze" function so that adjusting the input gain pot after sound check doesn't affect the in-ear mix. I saw a Paul Gilbert show in NYC last year where he actually had to stop in the middle of the first song, because somehow the keyboards were now blasting in his ears and he could hear anything else. Wondering if this is a common monitoring problem with larger acts and how they deal with it.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[vangrieg]

Thank you for the replies!

We actually do have the monitor mixes separated for each musician, everyone on stereo ears (six guys using 12 aux mixes). Aux sends are pre-fader, but post EQ and compression (Setting Pre-2 on the Presonus) and always with ambient mics on stage. To guard against guest FOH guys, I have the fractal set up so the board is basically flat with no EQ or compression on guitar. On rhythm playing the guitar level is correct in everyone's mix, but on leads there is an additional 4.5db of sustained gain coming to the input of the mixer on the guitar channel. I need to do this because we often run without help at FOH to ride my fader on leads. I also run sound for other bands and it's the same issue FOH guys always have with keyboard players turning up the volume knob on the keyboard because they can't hear themselves, not realizing the DI signal is being boosted at the same time, therefore affecting all the monitor mixes and FOH mix. I haven't tried compressing the AUX, so I'll give that a try...but I'm thinking that although compressing the AUX will prevent blasting out their ears, the mix is still out of balance in the ears vs FOH during leads. As you recommend, maybe lowering the guitar feed a few db in each mix would be better than what is happening now. That way the guitar ear mix will be slightly low during rhythm and slightly high during leads

I've heard that some higher end boards have a separate gain "freeze" function so that adjusting the input gain pot after sound check doesn't affect the in-ear mix. I saw a Paul Gilbert show in NYC last year where he actually had to stop in the middle of the first song, because somehow the keyboards were now blasting in his ears and he could hear anything else. Wondering if this is a common monitoring problem with larger acts and how they deal with it.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

With regard to unexpected boosts, I force everyone in the band to max all their levels during rehearsals and never touch them. Works fine.

 

[unix-guy]

With regard to unexpected boosts, I force everyone in the band to max all their levels during rehearsals and never touch them. Works fine.

That is a great idea... My other guitarist uses an HD500X and his volume is constantly changing between rehearsal sessions. Apparently there is no display value for the master volume knob.

Of course, the programmed levels within presets can still change, but at least you are taking one variable away.

 

[ps43203]

Probably said already but, In this situation, IR's are your friend. I would try some roomy Ir's that sit with the band efficiently.
I personally HATE IEM's and Headphones, in general. I wish you luck, it is very difficult to get a good in ear mix. It is so
unfortunate that it has come down to these solutions. I miss the uber loud stage volume days and racks of power amps.
The axe-fx sounds so good powered to the hilt, but with headphones and Iem's, that's tough. I completely understand the need though and would be curious as to what finally does it for you. I use Headphones almost exclusively and would love to find a solution to match real volume, quietly. Ir's are damn good, but not the only part of the equation.

 

[vangrieg]

That is a great idea... My other guitarist uses an HD500X and his volume is constantly changing between rehearsal sessions. Apparently there is no display value for the master volume knob.

Of course, the programmed levels within presets can still change, but at least you are taking one variable away.

Exactly. There's no point in having the level changing flexibility during performances, so it should be a habit to assume the volume knob doesn't exist at all, and to set up sounds by other means. On my Axe, the volumes are maxed out, always.

Ideally, a pair of monitors in a treated room, a multitrack recording with DI tracks, and some time for tweaking presets in the context of a mix can do wonders, but it's been next to impossible for me to have other band members dedicate time to this more than a few times and then avoid changing their patches...

 

[unix-guy]

Probably said already but, In this situation, IR's are your friend. I would try some roomy Ir's that sit with the band efficiently.
I personally HATE IEM's and Headphones, in general. I wish you luck, it is very difficult to get a good in ear mix. It is so
unfortunate that it has come down to these solutions. I miss the uber loud stage volume days and racks of power amps.
The axe-fx sounds so good powered to the hilt, but with headphones and Iem's, that's tough. I completely understand the need though and would be curious as to what finally does it for you. I use Headphones almost exclusively and would love to find a solution to match real volume, quietly. Ir's are damn good, but not the only part of the equation.

There are definitely pros and cons... The ability to mix and hear each band member as I want, while allowing the other band members to do the same, is HUGE... But I agree that it sounds better to me coming out of my Xitone wedges!