Time to leave Pro Tools. What would be a good replacement?

I am starting to get the feeling that I am going to be investing in more than one solution. It is hard to ignore Logic X. The more I look at that the more I like it. However, I am also trying to prepare for the day when my Mac need upgraded. I will probably switch over to a PC at that time because the hardware is half the price. I originally went with Mac because they were doing things better at that time. Things just worked. It is a new world now. Knowing that, I am going to want to pick a solution that I can easily move over. I don't want to have to pay a crossgrade fee to do it. That is where PT was strong for me. All I had to do was install it on both and use the iLok in whichever machine I was using at the time and it just worked.
You very well may want to. With the exceptions of Sequoia and anything that went to a subscription model, none of them are all that expensive.

Steinberg's licensing uses an eLicenser, but it's the same idea as an iLok, just a different physical thing. I have one of each installed inside my PC case and never think about them, but I also don't use other computers for audio stuff.

Logic X and Cubase Pro are the two highest on my list right now. What I am not sure on is if I buy the current version of Cubase, will I have to pay an upgrade fee later this year when they release the new version? I need to get an answer to that question.
Someone else said that the grace period started a while ago, so that's cool. They do that. They also have cheap upgrades available. And they're running a sale right now....40% off IIRC. Maybe that's just WaveLab.

I really don't want to get into holy wars...but as for the Mac vs. PC thing....I have a different perspective.

I used OS X from like 2006 until around 2018 for music things and general use. In that time....
  • When they worked, I liked them a LOT. Windows 2000 was okay, but XP through 8 were all nightmares. I switched from XP to Linux in 2004 and only went to Macs when I wanted to get into computer music things.
  • Despite most of them including them, none of my MBs or MBPs ever had a working optical drive. They were all DOA. The Apple Stores were not able to offer me replacement hardware; they had to ship it off to have it replaced, and I was never willing to be without my laptop for that long. I eventually installed adapters to run a second drive (first HDDs, then SSDs) from OWC in every one of them.
  • I paid for 2 Apple laptops. I think I had 5 due to major-fault warranty replacements. I had another several logic board replacements.
  • Before you say that's just complimentary of AppleCare, two of those replacements came after me complaining to executive customer support after being jerked around by 2 different Apple Stores each time. None of the replacements took less than 10 days, and I was without the computer being functional for that amount of time. All of them were inside the AppleCare support windows. And none of them were from the OWC adapters or anything I did.
  • Partially considering all of that, the absolute best OS X experience I had was with a hackintosh. It had the fewest issues with upgrades and hardware. I think I built that PC in 2012 (i7 3770, if that helps), and I still use it as an ESXi machine. It hosts a virtual router and some private servers to this day. It also benchmarked on-par with Mac Pros of the day for 1/3 the cost (though they were old at that point). Other than SSD upgrades, I think I've replaced one RAM stick and added other hardware as it's role changed.
  • I actually built a second PC with hackintosh-compatible hardware (just in case) in 2013ish. I upgraded SSDs and RAM, and I had to delid the CPU and replace the thermal paste under it when it started over-heating a couple years ago. It ran Linux for most of it's life and runs FreeBSD now. It's my main day-job work machine. It's uptime is currently 165 days, running in the closet, and only being accessed over SSH from my Windows machine. Yes, relying on a modified CPU is dumb. But, I could replace it today locally for a few hundred bucks and have a new one running tomorrow.
  • I bought a PC laptop in 2011 while I was waiting for one of my MBPs to be replaced. It's run Linux the entire time. The case has been cracked since someone knocked it off a table when it was a week old. It still works, and I still use it. All I've done to it is upgrade the SSD every few years.
When I wanted to upgrade in 2018 (I think), I seriously considered going back to an actual Apple...I always felt bad about running hackintoshes and really thought maybe Apple should get their s*** together with their hardware. While I was doing that research, what I figured out was that with any Apple, the "extra cost" of the thunderbolt enclosures/adapters/docks/etc. I would need to run some hardware that I need would have cost more than the PC I ended up building (which also wound up benchmarking better than any non-Xeon Apple). So, I built another Hackintosh (i7 8086k) and set it to an all-core 5GHz boost. A little while later, there were rumors in the hackintosh communities that the T2 chips would make hackintoshes just stop working at some point. So, I decided to try Windows 10 just to see what it was like.

Yes, it was more of a pain to set up. There are more little tweaks you have to do, mostly to get DPC latency down and eliminate spikes. You also have to do things during the installation to remove Telemetry, Cortana, XBox BS, and other things like that, apply some networking optimizations, etc.. Fortunately, SpiceWorks (an IT forum) makes it pretty easy by providing PowerShell "decrapifier" scripts that uninstall some things and adapt Group Policy to block others. It's absolutely ridiculous that kind of thing is required. But...it works.

I prefer OS X.
I don't like jumping through those hoops.
I don't like giving Microsoft money.
I prefer NFS to SMB.
I prefer zsh to PowerShell.
I like the BSD(ish) userland of OS X well enough.
There are a handful of OS X-only non-music applications that I prefer to their windows alternatives.
Getting help with anything to do with Windows is a huge PITA...at least as bad as a "Genius Bar" appointment.

But, as far as I'm concerned, Apple's hardware has just gotten worse since then. There's no way I could actually use any of the current Macs for all of what I do except the Pro. My PC does it all and doesn't bat an eye.

And, the whole computer barely cost more than an Echo III Desktop.

I want to go back to Apple. But I can't because their hardware is entry-level crap in a nice box.
 
Steinberg's licensing uses an eLicenser, but it's the same idea as an iLok, just a different physical thing.
No longer true from this point forward. Steinberg is dropping the dongle as of version12.


I used OS X from like 2006 until around 2018 for music things and general use. In that time....
Things have changed a lot since 2018. For musicians, the M1 Mac is truly a game changer. Powerful, inexpensive, and quiet.
 
No longer true from this point forward. Steinberg is dropping the dongle as of version12.



Things have changed a lot since 2018. For musicians, the M1 Mac is truly a game changer. Powerful, inexpensive, and quiet.
Cool. I wonder how many computers you can install it on? Dongles don't bother me. I honestly prefer them. But, I also have unused USB headers left on my motherboard. So, they're not an inconvenience for me. I install them once and then don't think about them again.

I'm not convinced about M1. I'm curious, and I am considering it whenever it's time for a new computer. Most consumer-class things are going to go to ARM at some point. But, it's not a game-changer. It's trade-offs just like everything else.
  • You can't replace internal storage after purchase.
  • You're limited to 16GB of RAM (32 with Pro/Max), and you can't replace/upgrade it.
Those trade-offs aren't really worth the performance benefits to me, at least right now. They may be at some point. But, it's really the form factor that gets to me. Hanging a bunch of stuff off a laptop or a Mini and paying for a pile of adapters to do it, just to do what I can do now with stuff already installed in my PC....doesn't make much sense.

Due to the form factors, any current Mac (except the Pro) would mean somewhere between $400 and $800 of stuff just to plug in hardware that can just be installed in a desktop, and it's mostly hanging off a USB-C connector instead of held in by screws and protected/cooled inside the case. Sonnet seems to have solved that problem with their desktop/rackmount chassis that also hold a Mini, but that adds even more cost.

If Apple made a desktop with PCIe slots and a desktop-class version of M1 Max, I'd consider one, even with the soldered RAM. If they made a Mini with M1 Max, I'd seriously consider giving one a try, even with all the extra Sonnet stuff (which, by itself, costs more than my desktop did).

I'm waiting to see what the next gen of Mac Pros look like....but I have this weird feeling that they're going to continue forcing you into graphics cards I neither need nor want.

I want to switch back. But, I can't justify it. It's not that Macs are expensive. It's that Macs' form factors would require me to use so much extra stuff that the incremental cost over a PC winds up about the entire cost of the Mac, for a computer that I can't fix.

What they're doing doesn't make any sense.
 
Since Cakewalk was taken by that Singaporean billionaire to offer it for free, the upgrades have raised it to an unbelievable level. Worth enough to replace the Mac with a versatile PC
Been using Cakewalk since the 90's. Now I use CWbyBandlab. Killer app for free. Just an amazing daw. I have the $$$ to buy what I want as far as a daw and plugs.
I stick with CWbyBL because it is PRO solid and updates\enhancements and bug fixes come out just as regular as Fractal. Think about that.
No i don't own stock, as stated, been using CW since forever. I also have reaper and Studio one. I, for one, cannot handle the clogged menus in reaper. Just too much for me. But I have a paid version of it because it is a solid daw.
 
I NEVER had a PC that lasted more than 2-3 years.

This is absolutely NOT my experience either personally or in 20+ years of working in IT. My current PC is over 8 years old and still going strong. The one I built before that lasted nearly 10 years. In both cases I chose to upgrade and previous machine was still running fine.

I'm no Windows fanboy, nor am I a Mac hater. They're both just tools. Apple makes great products and has a great design aesthetic, but you will almost always pay more in the long run either through more expensive hardware, fewer software options, more expensive peripherals and accessories, etc. For many that extra cost is justified by their personal preference and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you'll have a very hard time convincing a great many people that Macs are a better value.
 
There is no limit to how many you can install it on. You'll find abundant details about the upcoming licensing changes on the Steinberg site.
Looks like it's the same idea as windows licensing, which is a nightmare. Also, no, you can't activate it on as many computers as you want; you're limited to 3 at once.

My real question is how they expect to deauthorize computers that aren't connected to the internet. Or that you can't deauthorize in advance because you had to replace the hard drive (or with M1 the whole system board). That's exactly how I lost access to my Waves plugins. I've moved iLoks between computers for so long that I didn't even think about it being so stupid that you had to deauthorize first...then switched to Windows...which required me to recover them, which you can only do once a year...then forgot about it by the time I upgraded the SSD to NVMe so it would keep up with my storage network, which was enough of a change to the hardware ID that I would have had to recover again. But, I couldn't. Their customer support told me to wait until I could recover again. So, I forgot about them for a few years and haven't bought another product from them. And I won't. Nothing they make is so important that I'm willing to put up with that crap.

I had a similar story with Windows when I did that drive upgrade, but at least it didn't cost anything (ended up having an extra that came with a computer I only ever ran Linux on). I never did recover the license I lost, though. MS customer support was a total joke.

Steinberg makes good software, and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But...if I wasn't already a WaveLab user, I would not buy into their stuff until I find out about that. IDK....I guess I'll have to eventually. Winding up in that situation and buying an extra copy of WL or a site license is still cheaper than Sequoia. But, it does not make me happy.

I know I'm being a total contrarian here. I really don't hate everything as much as I'm sure it seems. It just really annoys me when I end up having to abandon products I like because the execs made decisions that I'm not willing to live with.
 
Also, no, you can't activate it on as many computers as you want; you're limited to 3 at once.
You asked how many can it be installed on. That's different than activation. The idea is you can then float your activations among the computers it's installed on.

You're right that this change isn't an unalloyed benefit to everyone. There are downsides for people who don't connect their studio computer to the internet. But the fact is those people are small in number compared to the number of people who have been clamoring for Steinberg to drop the dongle.

But...I'm not sure any of this is relevant to the OP.
 
You might as well try Cakewalk first, it's free, and the reports I've seen are good. (Never tried it myself, Studio One here.)

I installed it over the weekend on my Windows laptop. I like the look of it. I am going to check it out but really want something that will run on both Mac and PC so I don't have to worry about which platform I want to run it on. That is my attempt to futureproof my system. That was a strength of PT for me.
 
I installed it over the weekend on my Windows laptop. I like the look of it. I am going to check it out but really want something that will run on both Mac and PC so I don't have to worry about which platform I want to run it on. That is my attempt to futureproof my system. That was a strength of PT for me.
Studio one runs on both and is constantly updated. They do have a buy it now option instead of their subscription.
But I still prefer logic X on a Mac. Aggregate audio interfaces along with rock solid audio drivers is a must for me.
 
I am a PC user and for quite a while used Reaper. Liked it but moved to Studio One and that's the DAW for me. Much more intuitive.
 
Late to the party here, but, curious if you've made a decision on a new daw?

I used PTLE7.4 for years. (I'm just a basement unprofessional wannabe) Then because of the old equipment and replacement costs, I tried Studio One. I would def. recommend having a good go at it. It's a bit of a learning curve cause some of the muscle memory is different. But I'm learning to really appreciate it.

Cheers!
 
I'll just throw in to be contrary against the tide. I do not like Logic. There I said it. But it has all the plugins and virtual instruments you're going to need. For the way I work it's just convoluted. But I come primarily from DP which is laid out a lot like PT. I own all three. It's far easier for me to work with PT than Logic, although for one reason or another I've been using Logic more. DP has a bug with my system that makes it difficult, although they came out with an update that is so far so good.
 
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I'll just throw in to be contrary against the tide. I do not like Logic. There I said it. But it has all th eplugins and virtual instruments you're ging to need. For the way I work it's just convoluted. But I come primarily from DP which is laid out a lot like PT. I own all three. It's far easier for me to work with PT than Logic, although for one reason or another I've been using Logic more. DP has a bug with my system that makes it difficult, althoygh they came out with an update that is so far so good.
After Apple acquired EMagic, Steve Jobs was given a demo of Logic. He was famously appalled by what he saw. Over the years, Apple has made strides to improve it, and it is definitely better (The single window design that DP now uses was copied from Logic.) But Logic was a mature product when Apple acquired it, so there's only so much that can be done.
 
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