Thoughts on FW 14 AST and other Clean-ish amps?

I've just compared five of my reference amps with their models. Deluxe Reverb, Carr Rambler, Bandmaster, Princeton and Twin Reverb. The models are more accurate than ever. The only one that was off was the Bandmaster because the model assumes V1 has been removed and I had put V1 back in. Once I reduced the Master Volume to simulate putting V1 in the model was spot-on.

The breakup, pick response and response to rolling off the volume knob are so close that I cannot tell which is which when I do my blind A/B test.

Whether or not V14 is exactly the same as V13 I don't care. All I know is the models are uncannily accurate and sound great. When switching to the old modeling (which I can do in debug firmware) the pick response is not as accurate. It lacks power and punch and feels "congested" when picking lightly. It IS cleaner when picking lightly with the old modeling algorithm but it doesn't respond the same as the amps. The amps break up more when picking lightly. With the new modeling the breakup is the same when picking lightly.

FWIW my Deluxe Reverb is nearly impossible to get clean. With the volume on 2 it will still break up with my PRS (as will the model). Note that Fender amps are indicated from 1-10 whereas the Axe-Fx indicates from 0-10 so '2' on a Fender is approximately 1.1 on the Axe-Fx.


Sir, thanks for the explanation! Yesterday I was in a gig, and the tone was wonderful, despite the break up (correct term :)).

Before it did not happen, everything is more musical because of improvements commented above.

Adjusted by lowering the input and input trim and drive ok.

Sorry if I caused all disorders, as to not dominate this wonderful language.
 
All I can say is:
1. On my rig with my guitars & my touch, v14 is easier to distort on several of these cleaner amps.
2. I understand there can be differences from one amp to another of the same kind. I also understand these amps are 40 +years older than when I used them & as all things do with age, they deteriorate to some extent. (unless all the parts have been replaced & then it's not a vintage amp anymore!)
3. I have never heard the amps Cliff used to model. ( I would love too!)
4. I have no reason to doubt Cliff when he says v14 is much more accurate.
5. v14 does sound great regardless of my concern.
6. I can make my peace with it, re-tweak & move on to more playing & less posting.:eagerness:
Even though I did not start this thread, the cleans are more important to me than the mid to high gain sounds so I had a very real concern. For me, this was never meant as a bash-fest on Cliff or Fractal & hopefully, it wasn't taken that way. (at least not by Cliff) Thanks for taking a look into this!

I just tried an experiment and got an amazing preset with hardly a tweak.

I suspected maybe some funny business with AxeEdit preserving some setttings so here's what I did.

1. I went to the Double Verb factory preset in bank A.

2. Exit AxeEdit.

3. Powered down the AxeFx II.

4. Held the Recall button while powering up. This creates an empty preset.

5. Relaunched AxeEdit ( 3.0.8 )

6. Renamed the preset back to Double Verb.

7. Added these blocks in this order: Amp 1 -> Reverb 1 -> Cab 1.

8. Connected the blocks and connected Amp 1 to the input of the Grid and Cab 1 to the output of the Grid.

9. Changed the Amp 1 amp type to Double Verb.

10. Changed Amp 1 Input Drive to 2.22 (i.e. "3" on a real Fender) I left the Input Trim on 1. !!!!!

11. Changed Reverb 1 type to Medium Spring and changed the mix to 7%

12. Changed Cab 1 IR to the Fractal Audio Sample Ultra Res IR (found in the firmware 14 download), 2x12 Double Verb M160.syx

Now I can play this preset with my Les Paul Custom, a guitar that easily overdrives real Fender amps, the amps I currently own, and this preset does break up, but not much. Input trim on 1 !!!!!

In fact, this preset with absolutely no changes to bass, mid, treble, presence, sounds crazy good.

You can hear that fender chirping in the high end and the low end stays together maybe even too good. (Probably some basic tweaks would get a little bigger low end).

notalemming, I suggest you give this workflow a go.

Before I created the blank preset, I wasn't getting as good a results editing the old preset.

Edit: Not trying to blame AE for anything. Just posting a known good workflow for demoing the FW14 Double Verb. And, I use two CLR's for monitor on stands in FF mode.
 
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Seems more than just a little odd barh - however, if it's worked for you beyond any point of question, then hey

Would be interesting to hear other views on what may or may not have gone on there
thinking.gif
 
I just tried an experiment and got an amazing preset with hardly a tweak.

I suspected maybe some funny business with AxeEdit preserving some setttings so here's what I did.

1. I went to the Double Verb factory preset in bank A.

2. Exit AxeEdit.

3. Powered down the AxeFx II.

4. Held the Recall button while powering up. This creates an empty preset.

5. Relaunched AxeEdit ( 3.0.8 )

6. Renamed the preset back to Double Verb.

7. Added these blocks in this order: Amp 1 -> Reverb 1 -> Cab 1.

8. Connected the blocks and connected Amp 1 to the input of the Grid and Cab 1 to the output of the Grid.

9. Changed the Amp 1 amp type to Double Verb.

10. Changed Amp 1 Input Drive to 2.22 (i.e. "3" on a real Fender) I left the Input Trim on 1. !!!!!

11. Changed Reverb 1 type to Medium Spring and changed the mix to 7%

12. Changed Cab 1 IR to the Fractal Audio Sample Ultra Res IR (found in the firmware 14 download), 2x12 Double Verb M160.syx

Now I can play this preset with my Les Paul Custom, a guitar that easily overdrives real Fender amps, the amps I currently own, and this preset does break up, but not much. Input trim on 1 !!!!!

In fact, this preset with absolutely no changes to bass, mid, treble, presence, sounds crazy good.

You can hear that fender chirping in the high end and the low end stays together maybe even too good. (Probably some basic tweaks would get a little bigger low end).

notalemming, I suggest you give this workflow a go.

Before I created the blank preset, I wasn't getting as good a results editing the old preset.

Edit: Not trying to blame AE for anything. Just posting a known good workflow for demoing the FW14 Double Verb. And, I use two CLR's for monitor on stands in FF mode.

The Double verb is not one of the amps I was having an issue with. Some of the Fenders stay amazingly clean. Also, I do about 98% of my editing from the front panel so Axe Edit is not an issue. I tried the Nuclear tone after reading the OP & could not get a clean sound out of it. It sounds great but not truly clean. For the most part, the other amps at issue for me, (Deluxe, 59 Bassman, Superverb & Matchless) I have been able to find workarounds. I will try this just to see if there is any difference.
 
Give a listen to the Bogner Shiva. My favorite clean sound. I use it with the V30 4x12 Ultra cab.

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