Thoughts on a bank of basic presets

rp911

Inspired
I've been playing guitar for 30 years now, mostly through Fender amps. I think the AxeFX is terrific.

I have heard a lot of gripes from newbies like me about the presets, and I understand that they are just designed to show some of the capabilities of the effects, and so forth. And I also understand that not everyone uses the AxeFX the same way ... FRFR, through a power amp and cab, in the effects loop of another amp, etc.

One of the biggest challenges for me is just knowing how to properly set up full-range simulations of the various amp types. For example, I am not familiar with a lot of the amps -- Fryette, TrainWreck, Engl -- that the Axe is so adept at emulating. And, I wouldn't have the slightest idea of the typical settings on a plexi or an AC-30, or a Boogie, to get their well-known sounds, even basics like where to put the master and gain controls -- though I am sure I would recognize them if I heard them. And it goes beyond basic settings, to which cabinets are typically used with which amps, and what sort of speakers you would put in them.

I would love to see someone who really knows all these different amps design a quick bank of presets to show off all these amp types in their typical uses, with the correct speakers in the correct cabinets, where the amp would sound basically "right" if you plugged in your Strat or Les Paul and just started playing. These could be very simple presets -- just amp block into a cab block. Twin into a 2X12 open back. Marshall into a 4X12. Boogie into a 1X12. They could be optimized for a consistent output level. It would be great to plug in and move, through a FR system, from a Fender Twin to a plexi to a Vox to a HiWatt to an Engl -- and really hear the basic characteristics of those amps, without having to change the cabinets, speakers, adjust gains, etc. Just step from one "basic" palette to the next, then use those presets as bases to build your own perfect rigs. No effects, no nothing. I know Cliff has already set a lot of basic parameters up on the various amp types, so a Twin runs class AB, the tone stack is right, bright switch is there if it should be, and so forth.

I'm picturing in my mind walking into a huge music store with one of every one of these amps powered up in a line, and being able to unplug out of one and straight into the other, with all the master volumes set at the same level.

I fully realize the power of the AxeFX is to be able to tweak dozens of parameters, create hybrid amps, use the effects, etc. But for a guy like me who knows how to plug a Strat straight into a Twin Reverb and get good tone, but doesn't know a V curve on a Boogie from a greenback in a 4X12, it would be a great way to learn about the kinds of amps you can't exactly walk into a music store, turn them all up to ten (or 11, if it's the Nigel Tufnel preset), and hear how they sound. This is one of the reasons I bought my Ultra, to be able to have access to all these sounds.

And, if these presets are simple enough, it would be easy to just turn off the cab simulation if you were not using a FR system and hear all the different models through your own power amp and cab.

Just random thoughts on a Saturday morning. I have little doubt that a lot of these presets exist in the old editor archives, if you can parse them out, but personally, if I had the knowledge to do it, I would assemble something like this, as it would not only help new users discover the basic raw power of this device, I think it would be a pretty effective sales tool as well, and stop the preset bashing that seems to populate the other forums.

And, of course, as you learn how to tweak and design, that bank becomes largely useless. But I think it would be very valuable initially. At least to me.
 
You should definitely start everyone off by posting some Fender amp patches that sound close to how you dial your real amps in. I know that there aere some of these stripped down "simulated amp" settings floating around. Maybe this is a good place to start compiling them. The JTM patch from the "Real amps" vs. Axe IR's thread would be a good one as well.
 
I think Fractal has made a mistake with their presets. I nearly returned the unit in disgust after one night. It sounded similar to my $50 Zoom pedal. I don't understand. I think maybe Fractal doesn't understand what's driving people like me towards this pedal. It's NOT the effects. I've got effects, lots of them. Sure, it's great to finally be able to sell them cause the Fractal's so good with delay, etc, but that's NOT why I shelled out $2000 for an Ultra.

The entire purpose was for amp emulation. Plus the room tone/reverb. The amp, cab, mic emulation allows people to record direct for real, or go on the road without a lumbering case. That's the bottom line. The first 50 presets or so should be basic: amp -> cab -> slight reverb.
 
famished said:
I think Fractal has made a mistake with their presets. I nearly returned the unit in disgust after one night. It sounded similar to my $50 Zoom pedal. I don't understand. I think maybe Fractal doesn't understand what's driving people like me towards this pedal. It's NOT the effects. I've got effects, lots of them. Sure, it's great to finally be able to sell them cause the Fractal's so good with delay, etc, but that's NOT why I shelled out $2000 for an Ultra.

The entire purpose was for amp emulation. Plus the room tone/reverb. The amp, cab, mic emulation allows people to record direct for real, or go on the road without a lumbering case. That's the bottom line. The first 50 presets or so should be basic: amp -> cab -> slight reverb.

I think most guitar players go through the 'preset woes'. I know I did. Although I didn't presume to know every other's (and Fractal's) bread and butter. :|

After many hours of experimentation, I am pretty comfortable getting amp/cab tones that I enjoy. Now, the presets serve me as inspiration of what is possible with effects and routing. I am SO THANKFUL that they are the way they are. There are hundreds of examples of combinations that I would never think of. I wouldn't have had much of a clue on how to build 'band delays' for example. The presets teach you this stuff.

The idea of having presets that really showcase each amp model is cool. But it's something the community can do.
 
I think, the presets are made for direct recording. The frustration comes, when people connect the axe with gear on a stage. A lot of the presets sound completely different and sometimes terrible when they are sent into a PA mixer, a Monitor, ss-amp/cab, tubeamp/cab (my experience). It would be great if there are a handfull of simple presets that we can take as examples of use for the different amplifications. That would reduce the frustation a lot of people have during the first axe test. - Nobbi.
 
Didn't I read in an interview with Cliff that he originally designed the unit as a multi-effects and added the amp sims in later? Why do people naturally assume it is the other way around?

FWIW, I've heard some insanely good clips of some of the presets. I guess it is how those people used them in context though. They react differently to different guitars/playing style.
 
@famished: My early Ultra box came at a time of only 128 presets. My pedal chooses 10 without switching banks (which I hate to do). I have always struggled to get 10 good presets on the front line from other devices. Previously I utilized triple pre-amps and a voodoo labs amp switcher to jog a JMP-1, Peavey Rockmaster and Rocktron Prophesy II to pull off about 30 on-the-fly tones.

I have a handmade Marler Strat Style guitar which is stellar and upon plug-in to the Axe it drove me crazy because I had 60+ pristine factory presets out of the box ready to go and a remaining 20 or so were no slouches... I just didn't wanna' mess with them I wanted to play.

So to say 'fractal made a preset mistake' is totally subjective to you (and others) and I respect that has been your experience but at the same time how could I not argue with you all day long. The fact that Cliff then introduced 128 more presets followed by 128 more only enriched (and complicated) my situation. Each guitar has a personality, as does the Axe, the player, the environment. Some hit it off and some take work.
 
I do get a kick out of these threads; but again... presets do not the machine make.

This is a machine for professional level artists. When a painter chooses his tools, if he is looking for the best tools, he buys them. The best tools in any field don't come with paint-by-numbers presets that they can use out of the box. A chef isn't going to work off the recipe on the side of the ingredients he buys, and being an artist (aka guitarist) of any stature means you have accumulated some experience dialing in your tones whether doing so with a conventional traditional guitar rig or one that incorporates new bleeding edge technology like the Axe-FX.

As more and more cats move towards trying the Axe-FX, the level of experience creating and crafting tones by the player obviously impacts this sort of 'preset' focus.

I know guys want it to dial in right out of the box and be the perfect answer. But take a minute, step back and look at the different rigs everybody is trying to incorporate the Axe-FX into (ie. "can I use this with my )(*)(#@$ amp and cab and still have it sound like a Fender, a Vox, a Marshall and a Mesa?") and everybody is playing different music. You'll see guys going on and on about how modelers work live, but never for recording. You'll see guys saying modellers are fine for recording, but never cut it live. You'll see guys saying the cleans are never right with modelers and then you'll see guys saying modelers can't do the brootalz.

The key being, you can please some of the people SOME of the time in the end. The ticket with the Axe-FX is that YOU the player have to create your own sonic stew. Like it or not. There is no getting around it. Even if you are just a guy that tweaks presets and leaves it at that; you have to get inside the box to make it work FOR you.

Presets are presets.

Make your own way. You have a palette to create your own sonic signature and timbre with the Axe-FX like never before. Your tweaks are to make it more individual and specific to your tastes and needs instead of covering any weaknesses in the core tones it does.

Don't just scoff and demand someone else get inside your head and make it work for you.

This is NOT a plug and play device.

It's far too powerful and reaches too far. To tap that, you are going to need to invest time and learn how to work it. There is NO way around it.

Presets or not.

IMHO, YMMV.
 
I don't know. Presets provide a starting point for dealing with an immensely complex device. I have experience with rack equiment going back to the 80s, and I wouldn't have liked to tackle the Axe without having a good collection of presets for guidance.

I know it's hard to transfer presets. Change the guitar or the amplification system and everything's off. Hopefully in the next axchange style site, there will be some categorization options for that stuff.
 
That's partially my point ... presets are only good starting points. But if someone is unfamiliar with the sweet spot or tone from a given amp, it would be great to hear that dialed in a little bit.

I just don't have a lot of hands-on experience with power amp compression, different sorts of speaker cabinets, and so forth. I can sit there with the blank preset on my Ultra, and change from cabinet to cabinet, or change from amp model to amp model through a given cabinet, but without playing with the gain, master volume and levels on every given amp model, I'm unlikely to discover what's so terrific about a Matchless that's dialed in just right, or a cranked-up JM-45, etc. But I would bet that Scott Peterson could dial it in in about six seconds.

I hope people like Scott will be able to share some of their settings on the new editor forum, whenever it comes to exist.

And, I am working on a great blackface Fender Twin tone for my working band, and I will be sure and post it when I get it just exactly perfect.
 
I agree with all the posts here...one thing I noticed when I got mine....fw 4.xx or so, is that what you are plugging the axe into makes a HUGE difference. Guitar and amplification.

When I got mine I had my Event BAS2020's in my office so I plugged in and wasn't at all impressed with the presets...maybe a couple were OK at best. I could tweak the presets a bit and get a little more satisfaction, but I wasn't $2300.00 impressed. I plugged in to my QSC monitors when I got home and there was a major difference. The presets really changed for the better.

That said..I don't think I use any presets in my lineup now...all my sounds are either tweaked patches from the Axechange or my own creations.
 
ElectricPhase said:
Presets provide a starting point for dealing with an immensely complex device.
If that is correct, then there is at least one contributor to this thread - mwd - who says that too many of the presets sound good to him.

Hopefully in the next axchange style site, there will be some categorization options for that stuff.
It'll never work in a general sense. There's too much variation in guitar, amplification, playing style, and personal taste among Axer-Fx users.

Bottom line: everyone has a choice to make. You can face the challenge of taking advantage of the most powerful tone-shaping tool ever offered for sale to guitar players, or you can expect someone else to do it for you. If you choose the latter, you'll be able to find some help here, but you'll never find your personal happy place. The Axe-Fx is not a magic cure that fixes your tone. It is a tool to enable you to fix it yourself. It's only as good as what you put into it.
 
I agree with everyone here. I think the existing presets offer some inspiration and clues as to what is possible.

I agree that to really get out of it what you ultimately will want, much tweaking is necessary and time put in to learning the unit.

I also agree that some basic default stock amp/cab setups for each amp type would be the most useful thing the company could offer in the units at a time when more of the public is becomeing aware of the Axe-FX and considering the purchase and comparing it to the other amp modelling/fx units that do offer the defualt amp/cab presets.
 
Jay Mitchell said:
ElectricPhase said:
Presets provide a starting point for dealing with an immensely complex device.
If that is correct, then there is at least one contributor to this thread - mwd - who says that too many of the presets sound good to him.
Make that two. I use quite a few of the factory presets with only minimal changes. I was not disparaging them.

Jay Mitchell said:
It'll never work in a general sense. There's too much variation in guitar, amplification, playing style, and personal taste among Axer-Fx users.
It won't be perfect, but I think the following would help:
- Strat, Tele, Les Paul, "superstrat", or Piezo
- FRFR or amp and cab
- if amp and cab, specify which
- firmware rev.
 
Not sure on this one.

I havent played a preset in the 6 months Ive had my Axe !!!

I want to sound like "me" and while I played with all the amp sims, drives etc, Ive always started from scratch.

Part of this mybe cos I run PA and Cab, so sisnt really think the presets designed for FRFR would be any good anyway.

TBH Ive NEVER used presets, on my G-Major, Marshal FX unit, JMP-1, Voodoo valve, or the 3 line 6 products Ive owned over the years.

I think Presets are kinda usefull in a shop, when demoing a unit, as a taster of what it can do - but no more. Ive flicked a preset or too when auditioning in a shop because of time, and to see general quality of reverbs, delays etc - never once Ive got it home.

IMO, you get 2 weeks to try the axe, not 30 minutes in a shop. Start from scratch with simple presets (amp, Cab (if going FRFR) and maybe a reverb, delay or drive). If you cant get a decent tone of your own in 2 weeks - send it back. If you do (and 99% of people will) then you will get 100s of great tones if you need them after your 2 weeks.
 
When I'm not familiar with a certain amp e.g. Trainwreck (wrecker), I'll go on the manufacturer's website or the "wiki" of that amp and read up on the amp to see what tubes,which speakers/cab are used and so on, and a lot of times they will post amp settings for starting points. This really helped me to get familiar with all the amps we have in the Axe. I even bookmark the sites in a folder for reference. You might want to give that a try.
 
I don't understand why a lot of people are resistant to the idea of, say, maybe a couple dozen of the presets of the 256 being basic tones. Some people are going to be more proficient with dialing in patches than others, and it has nothing to do with whether the person is a professional musician or not.

I have always had a POD, since 1.0., so I am fairly comfortable with the Axe-Fx and have found some of the presets useful. I must admit however, when it comes to the amp technician stuff in the advanced pages I am a little lost and never really know what the effect of changing one parameter has on another and whether I am getting the best base tone that the Axe-Fx is capable of.

Maybe we could win over more of the people who play guitar, love good tone, but don't necessarily have the background or inclination to be amp techs.

IMHO.
 
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