Thinking of dumping my Bogner

Roland Deschain

Roland Deschain

Member
Hi all,
I've playing and gigging for over 20 years. I play a lot of different styles of music and have been searching for a good all arounder. I've owned many amps over the years and have been using a Bogner Extacy 101b for the last 6 years or so. It's a fantastic amp, and has served me well. Not the best at anything, but a very solid and versatile head.

However, I have 2 small kids now and don't gig anymore. The xtc is too loud and cumbersome to setup and tear down at home. I still get out to jams and need something that I can use for recording. I've been debating selling the xtc and getting a good power amp and FX-2 XL. That way I can still jam/gig while having the ease of headphone use and recording at home.

I've been down the modelling road before starting with the MP1 and ending with a POD XT and power amp. All with less then desirable results. My question are,
- Is the axe fx a viable solution for an old tube amp guy?
- What type of power amp would be suggested?
- What other things would I need to buy besides the pedal board to make it a functional live rig.
- Where do hell do I buy/try one in Vancouver Canada?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
- IMHO - Yes. I had a Road King II as the last amp before going all Axe-Fx (ultra) with a Mesa 50/50 and a pair of 2x12. I tried alot of Line 6 (Flextone, Vetta etc) stuff, but never stayed more than 2 months before going back to tubes.

Ultra/Mesa/Cab worked great. Now i run only Axe -> a pair of stage monitors. More than happy.
I don't "need" anything, but more is more, and i love more :)

Anyway, try some amps. I can't suggest, because i belive those things are so personal and subjective.

Welcome and good luck though :)
 
yes, played also fenders, mesa boogies for 11-12 years...and axe is great and you will get what you want and even more...but i wouldnt suggest to jump on FRFR train right in the start...as you mentioned a good power amp and a traditional guitar cab
is a great start and might be the way you keep going on later...and at home with studio monitors or head phones.

matrix amps are great, combine them with the cab you love and let the axe do the rest. hope it helps
 
I've been playing for ~35 years, and I've had quite a few different rigs over that time, mostly tube with the exception of a JC120H. I've been very happy with the Axe Fx, and I just recently made the jump from running a heavy tube power amp to a Matrix GT800 and I've been really happy with that move. I still run into a regular 2x12 guitar cab and I doubt I'll every do the full-range thing since I don't need or want tons of different amp sounds. I don't feel like I've given up any of the "tube" sound or feeling switching to the Axe Fx then the Matrix. The way I see it/saw it is that I was getting all my distortion via pedals anyway, and I'd been getting increasingly more powerful amps to try to get a nice clean tone with lots of headroom - so I realized I was actually trying to get away from power amp distortion. My previous power amp was a VHT 2/90/2 - clean, clean, clean and tons of headroom. I certainly wasn't getting any tube crunch from that amp! It sounded really great, but frankly I like the sound of the Matrix better. Yep, that's right. I like the Matrix BETTER. People are fond of saying the Matrix is 95% as good as the VHT because we don't want to make the heretical statement that a solid state amp can sound just as good, or better, than a tube amp. I like the way it delivers power to the speakers - fast, snappy, and super clean.

If you don't need the power (or cost) of something like the Matrix, another option may be something like the Tech 21 Power Engine 60.

When my current band starts recording on our second album I may run the Axe direct, or I may still mic my cab - I'll decide when the time comes, but basically I'm open to either being valid approaches. I did an IR of my cab once and was pleasantly surprised how nearly indistinguishable the IR and a mic were on "tape". I do utilize feedback a bit, so being in front of a loud amp is important to me. But my point is, you'd be happy with the Axe into headphones at home, and you'd be happy with the Axe in a band/jam situation as long as you take the time to dial it in - it takes longer than it does with a regular amp, I've found. Of course, if you dial up a Bogner in the Axe Fx you may find it close to what you're used to. I use the Bogner Fish preamp model into the power amp section of the XTC model as the dirty amp in all my patches and I'm pretty happy with it. I've never actually owned a Bogner, and really didn't know anything about them prior to the Axe: I just went through the amp models until I said "Ah! There's the sound I'm looking for!" I have no idea how closely it actually resembles a Bogner, all I know is it works for me!
 
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Poparad said:
Slight aside, but I just discovered the Bogner Ecstasy model in the AxeFX and it's my #1 favorite high gain amp.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's nice isn't it? I use it as my dirty amp, though I dial in a light to medium gain and kick in a drive pedal when I need more. I've been going between this and the Dirty Shirley, but I find the Bogner (the Fish preamp, actually) to have a smoother, less fizzy, high-end.
 
Hey Roland - I'm a mid 40's old school tube guy and ditched all my traditional amps / cabs / pedals last summer and don't miss them at all, the Axe-Fx sounds better - actually sounds incredible - and is so flexible.

There is no comparison to any previous modeling systems you've used.

I got an Atomic CLR Powered Wedge and it's beyond amazing. This single 12" FRFR solution has as much sound as the Marshall 1960AV 4X12 I sold to buy it. My friends who have come by to hear it don't believe that's all I'm playing through and I could gig anywhere with it.

If I decide to gig again my entire live rig would fit in the front seat :)

The wedge can be used as a wedge, flipped on its side as a traditional cab or mounted high on a PA pole.


Posted with TapTalk for iPhone, please forgive the spelling errors.
 
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I'm liking what you guys are saying.

I am not a tube snob, or purest by any means. I think if it sounds good, it is good, (insert EVH credit here). It has always worked out to be tube amps that sound the best to me, with the exception of my JC120. When I was running a POD XT rig dialing it in wasn't an issue. I could tell what they were going for, but I suspect that the technology wasn't there yet.

Like most of us, I've had many amps over the years and each had their own magic. I remember when I was playing strictly rock, a JCM 800 cranked with a tube screamer was the ticket. Metal was an original 5150 cranked. Alternative was a cranked ODS 100. Cleans, the JC 120. And the Bogner is a good all arounder but it needs to cranked as well. Then we get into true bypass effects, keeley compressors etc. I don't have time for all that shit anymore, and my 4 year old boy would be feeding the batteries to my 2 year old son.

I don't think I would go with powered monitors or any of that. I like the thump and air of a good 4x12, or 2x12. Also there is a relationship between the guitar and speakers that IMO is essential.
 
Roland Deschain said:
I don't think I would go with powered monitors or any of that. I like the thump and air of a good 4x12, or 2x12. Also there is a relationship between the guitar and speakers that IMO is essential.
Click to expand...

Reconsider.

If you claim that volume is a problem, FRFR speakers are the way to go. You'll get some of that 'cranked' feel with them. You are absolutely right when there is 'no replacement for volume', but you'll be surprised how much of that low level feedback you can get at *reasonable* volumes with the Axe II.

Every 4x12/2x12 had a 'flavor' that I tired of after time. The only way I have been satisfied is relying on actually playing radically different amps and cabs and have them faithfully recreated via the Axe and IR's...only happens with FRFR.

Again, additional expense, but as a father of 9 year old twins, I've been able to scratch my guitar itch like a champ since 2007; without blowing up the house.

R
 
Roland Deschain said:
I don't think I would go with powered monitors or any of that. I like the thump and air of a good 4x12, or 2x12. Also there is a relationship between the guitar and speakers that IMO is essential.
Click to expand...

Certainly your choice, but in my experience the FRFR speaker is what makes the Axe-fx sing and have such a wide range of tones. The Full Range Flat Response speakers is what lets the Axe-Fx replicate all the different cabinets & speakers - you'll experience that cabinets have more of an impact on your tone than you'd expect, and let's not even talk about blending them.

The single Atomic CLR Wedge has similar output and bass as my Marshall 4x12 - seriously, it's as impressive as the Axe-Fx itself.


Posted with TapTalk for iPhone, please forgive the spelling errors.
 
Roland Deschain said:
Hi all,
I've playing and gigging for over 20 years. I play a lot of different styles of music and have been searching for a good all arounder. I've owned many amps over the years and have been using a Bogner Extacy 101b for the last 6 years or so. It's a fantastic amp, and has served me well. Not the best at anything, but a very solid and versatile head.

However, I have 2 small kids now and don't gig anymore. The xtc is too loud and cumbersome to setup and tear down at home. I still get out to jams and need something that I can use for recording. I've been debating selling the xtc and getting a good power amp and FX-2 XL. That way I can still jam/gig while having the ease of headphone use and recording at home.

I've been down the modelling road before starting with the MP1 and ending with a POD XT and power amp. All with less then desirable results. My question are,
- Is the axe fx a viable solution for an old tube amp guy?
- What type of power amp would be suggested?
- What other things would I need to buy besides the pedal board to make it a functional live rig.
- Where do hell do I buy/try one in Vancouver Canada?

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Don't do it. I have an ecstasy, shiva and atma. You'll regret it. That amp, imo is the best amp ever made. Watch Steve Lukather's interview with Reinhold before you sell it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouPa5swr610

If you sell it, you'll eventually buy it back again. You'll have seller's remorse big time :) I bought the atma for the reasons you outlined -much lighter, sounds similar and has three channels.

Not saying you shouldn't have an axe, just don't sell the real amp.
 
Went through this same kind of thing 15 years ago. Think of it this way....do you get the body and warmth of that tube amp now that you have kids? Yeah, when you can get out to jams, but I can pretty much guarantee you those will start becoming increasingly rare as the kids get older. I've been at this guitar thing for over 40 years now and the Axe XL is literally the most versatile piece of of kit I've EVER had. No shit. I still have some of my old tube amps around but they don't get used at all since I got the Axe and will likely get sold in the near future. Mind you, if I had the $$ and the space to have the various amps and cabs modeled in the Axe I'd probably have it all - i love gear...the feel of it, the smell of it, the entire tactile experience of it all. But that simply isn't the case and likely never will be for me or for most of us. I was a hard core "real" amp/cab dude and used to scoff at the whole digital modeling of amps and cabs thing. For me, the Fractal gear is a game changer, simple as that. If your time and space becomes increasingly limited - as it did for me - the Axe is certainly a worthy investment and a "go forward" solution. Like pretty much everything else in life, it's a case of different strokes.
 
Get the AXE, it's a very cool piece of gear....

BUT don't go jump off the cliff with the rest if these guys and sell all your tube amps. Nothing beats the real thing. Don't sell the Bogner!!!
 
I came to the Axe from my Mesa Mark V. And a Carvin V3, Marshall JCM 2000, JCM 900, Fender Twin... blah blah. Had a bunch of tunes amps. Actually, still have most of them, and I don't want to sell them, but they just collect dust now.

I went straight to the CLR wedges and never messed with power amps and cabs. To me... If I was going to haul around amps and cabs, why would I bother with the Axe? I already had GREAT amps, and several of them.

The AXE was really designed for FRFR. To get the most from it, for me it was the only thing that made sense to do. My CLRs are loud as hell, sounds AMAZING and I don't miss a thing about my 4x12's.

I could very rarely play my amps/cabs loud enough to get them at their best anyway. When I could... man... it was fantastic for sure, but I at most club gigs that's a no go, so tone was always compromised to me. And at home? Forgettaboutit. But the AXE sounds great at mid and even low volumes.

The most simple, light, and effective rig I can imagine is guitar into an AXE-FX into a CLR. DONE.

Of course... you can way beyond that, and my rig is a bit more involved, but at the heart of things I know it doesn't need to be.
 
Hey Roland. The only place to buy the Axe FX 2 new is through the Fractal website. However, if you need to try before you buy, I live a few hours north of you in Kamloops and would be more than happy to help bring you to the dark side. I play through an Atomic CLR wedge (when I can, mostly headphones at home) and have never been happier or missed any of my old gear for a second. PM me and we'll work something out. Welcome to the forum. I've learned a lot here.
 
Keep the amp if you can. Test out the Two Notes Torpedo digital loadbox and you can use it at low volume and to record direct. You can also try the Mesa Boogie Cab Clone.

I've tried almost every amp modeling product available. The Axe-FX II is without a doubt the best. Also the FX are great, the ease of use is great, tone matching is great, the ability to record direct along with a DI via USB is great. I love my Axe-FX and I don't own a tube amp (I had a wonderful Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier back in the day which I actually do miss but that thing had to be crazy loud to sound good). I recommend 1 powered Atomic CLR FRFR wedge ($1,000) and a Behringer FCB-1010 foot controller (~$130) with a Eureka EPROM upgrade ($30) or MFC-101 with two Mission pedals if you have the scratch. This setup is super powerful, very light and very easy to set-up and breakdown. If money isn't a problem go for 2 CLR's.

BTW, you won't find many saying you'll miss your tube amp on this forum.
 
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