thinking about going the tube power amp cab route

G

gsegal

Inspired
I have been getting a bit tired of FR lately and miss the roundness of an open back cab. It just doesn't feel the same... I have tried a bunch of FR's and have an atomic which sounds great, but something is still missing not there yet for me I am thinking about the new atomic power amp and a port city 1-12 cab. I think that as much of a pain in the but that tubes are I still feel they are needed to get the depth that I hear in the atomic compared to other solid state FR's I tried. I think the same would apply to power amps as well. Am I wrong? Does anyone feel that there is a solid state power amp out there that can match tubes? My dream is that somebody comes up with a solid state amp that does for power amps what axe does for pre amps maybe a modeler of power amps. Where you can select power amps sections from different amps.
 
gsegal said:
Does anyone feel that there is a solid state power amp out there that can match tubes?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I run mt ART SLA-2 right next to my VHT 2/50/2 and no one can tell the difference - I'm serious.

Just last week, Sebastian Bach's guitarist posted that runs his SLA-2 to power his cabs and uses his CAA OD 100 amp as a FEAKIN' BACKUP!

That right there should tell you the power amp sims in the axe are legit.

As for mixing and matching pre and poweramps sims, play with the tonestack options. It is like switching our the preamp circuit voicing from one amp to another without messing with the poweramp sims. I have a patch that runs the Uber pre with the plexi model and sounds like to amp I have ever heard - mix and match, some will be winners and other won't. Just have fun.
 
He's right. I've used high end tube amps and high end solid state amps.

You're just throwing your money away. The solid states are just as good if not better.
 
james... said:
He's right. I've used high end tube amps and high end solid state amps.

You're just throwing your money away. The solid states are just as good if not better.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input guys I guess I have to try it before I can make an accurate statement. Its just my experience with the fr systems led me to feel that way towards tubes in general. The solid state fr's had a kind of lifeless thing to them with thin kind of highs. I was able to get a good sound with some peq but it still seemed like the notes have f a 3d kind of thickness with the atomic. Btw how heavy is the art?
 
Just an FYI -

The purpose of this message is to remind readers to try things themselves if possible.

I had 2 people over to the house (active members of this forum) last week with 2 different popular SS amps, Verve 12MAs, real cabs, etc.
After 2.5 hours of back and forth random listening, A/Bing, etc, etc, all 3 of us liked the axe into a tube power section better than any of the SS options we tried.
We did not spend alot of time EQing and working with the SS power amps. It was a quick and dirty, what sounds good out of the box.
We did allow a few minutes of paramater adjusting per test to see what could be done to improve the sound.

The tube power amp compared to SS amps had a more 3d, punchier, organic sound. Period.

The amps and the people will remain nameless. The experience was not scientific, but was informative.
It should be noted that all 3 of us have different musical tastes/backgrounds, but all came to the same conclusion.
YMMV, IMHO, etc, etc.
 
I sure would like to shed the weight of my VHT 20/50/2 but having owned an Art SLA-2 previously, I remain unconvinced. Do any of you FRFR converts have recordings of your live performances (not studio recordings) to share by way of comparison?
 
Stringtheorist said:
I sure would like to shed the weight of my VHT 20/50/2 but having owned an Art SLA-2 previously, I remain unconvinced. Do any of you FRFR converts have recordings of your live performances (not studio recordings) to share by way of comparison?
Click to expand...

Problem with this request is - Who is going to have a recording of a performance where both SS and tube power amps are used during the same show (same time, same place, same bat channel). Comparing SS power section vs tube power section at 2 different shows is meaningless. No offense, but comparison's need to be made in as controlled an environment (and the same environment) as possible.
 
m lebofsky said:
Stringtheorist said:
I sure would like to shed the weight of my VHT 20/50/2 but having owned an Art SLA-2 previously, I remain unconvinced. Do any of you FRFR converts have recordings of your live performances (not studio recordings) to share by way of comparison?
Click to expand...

Problem with this request is - Who is going to have a recording of a performance where both SS and tube power amps are used during the same show (same time, same place, same bat channel). Comparing SS power section vs tube power section at 2 different shows is meaningless. No offense, but comparison's need to be made in as controlled an environment (and the same environment) as possible.
Click to expand...
I agree with you have to have them back to back to really tell because I was happy with my solid state FR until I got the atomic and compared them right next to each other. I would probably stay with it if I didn't miss the way an open back cab fills the room. Does anyone have any opinion on a good. Light weight tube power amp? I know the messa 20/20 fits the bill but is 20wats tube., is that really enough to fill a small club without PA help?
 
This has a lot to do with what power amp we're talking about. I tried a Mesa 2:100 with my Axe-Fx and I can honestly say that it's clearly better than my ART SLA-2. The SLA-2 had a plastic type of tone when the Mesa sounded more organic. Now... I'm sure these can be EQd to sound very similar.
 
After 8 months of studio and giging with FRFR (Verve 12ma), I was very happy with my system. Ease of use, set-up and
tear down, good tone and Fx, but, coming from years of tube amps, somthing was not there. :( This weekend I got
motivated and set up a Wet/Dry rig with the Axe's Efx loop block, sending Preamp (and before) signal to my 100W tube
amp's efx loop-in jack. I am sorry I waited so long to try this, cause its a real winner! ;) The Axe pre's signal hits
the power tubes and chills, man. I know you need to think of your FRFR sound as what is coming from the PA not
your tube amp, which I do, but with straight FRFR, no matter how much tweaking I did, somthing was not quite there.

Once I have had a week to work on this, I will post my Wet/Dry Rig info for anyone else who wants to have a go. It's
a little more work for a gig, but for important small club's, where your backline must fill the room, to me, it will be
worth it. :D
 
To be clear. For the tone Mike was going for the power amp (bogner XTC poweramp section) and cabs sounded much better, hands down. However, there was a caveat. It only sounded better w/ the excursion set to loose. With it set to tight, I liked the solid states as well as the Bogner. It also was not very versatile (it wouldn't have worked for my purposes) The real bogner cabs sounded better than any of the stock cabs w/ the verves.

We messed with lots of parameters, but came to the conclusion that for his purposes it was just easier and less time consuming to bring the amp and cab that he already new and loved and use the Axe-fx as an effects unit and a for a preamp on some things. BTW, the 4 cable method worked great on his setup.

His setup would definitely not work for me. I go from class A chime, to plexi, Fryette, to Mesa Mkiic and lots in between. The Bogner power section sounded great but left a massive sonic footprint.
 
j8stringer said:
After 8 months of studio and giging with FRFR (Verve 12ma), I was very happy with my system. Ease of use, set-up and
tear down, good tone and Fx, but, coming from years of tube amps, somthing was not there. :( This weekend I got
motivated and set up a Wet/Dry rig with the Axe's Efx loop block, sending Preamp (and before) signal to my 100W tube
amp's efx loop-in jack. I am sorry I waited so long to try this, cause its a real winner! ;) The Axe pre's signal hits
the power tubes and chills, man. I know you need to think of your FRFR sound as what is coming from the PA not
your tube amp, which I do, but with straight FRFR, no matter how much tweaking I did, somthing was not quite there.
Click to expand...

DITTO
 
I have to agree fr not there yet. I think its because the speaker irs stock or redwire are not up to the level of the amp section and having an open back cab just can't be duplicated imho
 
javajunkie said:
To be clear. For the tone Mike was going for the power amp (bogner XTC poweramp section) and cabs sounded much better, hands down. However, there was a caveat. It only sounded better w/ the excursion set to loose. With it set to tight, I liked the solid states as well as the Bogner. It also was not very versatile (it wouldn't have worked for my purposes) The real bogner cabs sounded better than any of the stock cabs w/ the verves.

We messed with lots of parameters, but came to the conclusion that for his purposes it was just easier and less time consuming to bring the amp and cab that he already new and loved and use the Axe-fx as an effects unit and a for a preamp on some things. BTW, the 4 cable method worked great on his setup.

His setup would definitely not work for me. I go from class A chime, to plexi, Fryette, to Mesa Mkiic and lots in between. The Bogner power section sounded great but left a massive sonic footprint.
Click to expand...

FYI - Fryette 2/90/2 is on its way. I will have it this weekend. I'm hoping for the feel/tone/organicism (?) I got with the Bogner power section, but in stereo.
 
I started out on FRFR in 2008... then went to Art sla-2 and cabs.... and I'm buying a mesa 2:90 after hearing it with my axe-fx the other night.

I plugged into the 2:90.... power amp sims off and took me 1 minute to get a great tone. Ive been struggling to get clear bass and depth out of the art sla-2 and to get rid of the "flatness"

Whatever works for you though.... some people do say that they are 100% happy with SS amps.... not me.
 
For my purpose, my mono block tube amp (2x50 watts) sounds far better, to my ears, than the SS power amps I've tried so far. My latest comparison was to a Rocktron Velocity 300. I've always liked Rocktron, they make good stuff. The Rocktron is built like a tank, and very heavy. With the same Axe FX preset, the tube amp had way more headroom, more low end (even with the resonance on the Velocity maxed), and clearer highs. I tried boosting, cutting, PEQ.... to get the same "big" sound with the Rocktron, and could never get there. The difference really becomes evident when you start turning up. At low volumes, the difference is not nearly as noticable. This is just my experience, thus far, in trying to go SS.
 
Cron said:
I started out on FRFR in 2008... then went to Art sla-2 and cabs.... and I'm buying a mesa 2:90 after hearing it with my axe-fx the other night.

I plugged into the 2:90.... power amp sims off and took me 1 minute to get a great tone. Ive been struggling to get clear bass and depth out of the art sla-2 and to get rid of the "flatness"

Whatever works for you though.... some people do say that they are 100% happy with SS amps.... not me.
Click to expand...

I just don't think solid state technologies (except for the axe) have caught up with analog yet, I think it will eventually but not yet. And if people are happy with the art or whatever they're using more power to them wish I was them for now I think I'll stick with tubes until something comes along. I just wish there was a product on an even footing with the axe as far as recreating tubes with a digital format.
 
You don't even need an expensive "guitar" tube amp, like Mesa or VHT. A couple of mono-block tube amps off evilbay, mount them in a chassis, and you'd be surprised. I'm using a couple of mono-block amps I bought for $15 each back in the early 80's. They sound great driving 2 Marshall 4x12's with the Axe FX.
 
has anyone tried the carvin ts 100 by any chance? It's a bit heavy for my taste 25lbs, but I know carvin makes good stuff and It's a bit cheaper then mesa stuff. I like the 50w idea of the atomic power amp and its light the only thing is it's not rack mountable so it's another thing to grab
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom