Think you have a great tone and then ...

R

RockerAlex

Inspired

... you hear this!

I understand the video says it's mad with Positive Grid Bias, but I'm sure a tone like this is re-creatable within the Axe FX 2 ... I'm pretty nearly there but I can't seem to get the "tightness" and "close-to-the-speaker-ness" (if that makes sense) tone we hear here. Especially that bit at 1:49 - so insanely tight and not woofy.

Like I said I can get almost there with the Recto models but IR choice has me stumped, I can't find anything quite like that. Keep in mind I own all of the Mesa Ownhammer High Gain, Vectors and Clarks pack. Any tips?
 
I believe this is based around a 5150 and not a Recto. Not sure on the IR but I typically go with Vintage 30's on my 5150 patches. FWIW I'm digging IR's based around Marshall cabs with V30's rather than Mesa cabs with the 5150. Maybe start there?
 
They're solid performances through well crafted tones that sit well in a good mix. That has a lot more to do with it than Axe FX vs (name any other product here). There's no doubt that the Axe could give you results that are just as good, as long as you have their playing chops and their producer's and engineer's recording and mixing chops.

If you want tightness, look more towards the Boogie Mark IV models (USA Lead) rather than the Recto models. Recto's have the big low end, but are more loose and woofy with a crispy top end. Mark IV is much more focused and tight if you keep the bass control very low and use the graphic EQ to push up the low end a bit. The 5150 KH2203 mentioned would be another tighter alternative. Also, as he stated, the Marshall cab may be a better match too. Recto cabs, especially the oversized ones can be a bit boomy sounding for some things. The smaller Marshall sized 4x12 cabs are often tighter sounding. Another thing to try is to lower the sag in the amp block down to about 2 or even less. That can really tighten up your tones and make them feel more urgent and responsive. Also, don't push the master volume levels up too high either. Modern high gain amps are mostly preamp gain driven and need plenty of headroom in the power section to keep things tight and defined. A driven power section is great for warm fat old school rock tones, but you want tight and aggressive for this kind of stuff, especially with the bass heavy low tunings.
 
all being said I got the bias and jam up free, with these guys amps (5 bucks for the amps and positive grid free) and damn near fell out of my chair. It may not be as in depth as axe fx, but dayaaaaam for 5 bucks and a 15 dollar adapter, showwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun. ps no mixing no nuttin, just plain sounds great.
 
So true. Mutt Lange did nearly the entire Def Leppard Hysteria album with Rockman headphone amps. Not exactly the hallmark of stellar tone, but it fit the need at hand.
 
symphx said:
all being said I got the bias and jam up free, with these guys amps (5 bucks for the amps and positive grid free) and damn near fell out of my chair. It may not be as in depth as axe fx, but dayaaaaam for 5 bucks and a 15 dollar adapter, showwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun. ps no mixing no nuttin, just plain sounds great.
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What amps did you buy?
I have Bias, but don't love the stock amps.
 
maybe just me, but that's nothing like what I consider good tone.

sounds more like a ruff mix with a SS drums or superior drummer.

maybe i'm just deaf after cranking my new DSL40C all day :p

/shrug
 
I second V30's. I like to use the Citrus MIX UR for my V30 tone, cause it does that but with way more mid range body. To me that just sounds way too nasal-y. And I know it's probably a 5150's tone, and this is just me, but I'd also go with the Angle Severe 1, as it has a similar flavor, but it's a bit smoother, and more articulate.
 
Severed said:
maybe just me, but that's nothing like what I consider good tone.
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Not just you, it's an amazing performance, they are so tight it's ridiculous but the tones have almost no dynamics to them, it's all gain no guitar to my ears.

Goes to show how subjective tone is really I guess.
 
Meh,

I don't hear that it's any kind of superior tone. I don't play that style very much, but I've listened to a bunch of it and while this is good tone, I've heard better from the Axe. This tone sounds flat to me. It has no dimension. It's the playing and the layering that make this sound good (which again, I think it's "ok".) I mean I get that it's tight, not flubby and all that, but that's what good gating and EQ will do for you. Axe can do that, especially after it's been produced in a DAW by someone with skills (as previously mentioned).
 
I agree with all the statements above regarding tone shaping and Eq sculpting .

I would add that , know the fact that "tone" is really a personal taste , we have to be realist and think what we are listening ...
this is a COMPLETE , MIXED and even most important MASTERED piece of music with almost NO HEADROOM etc. etc.

I would bet that listening to the singular takes the guitars will sound SUPER THIN

Trying to achieve this BIG TIGHT sound we perceive listening this kind or recordings within only one guitar lands to the sad reality that is UNDESIRABLE ...
Unless you play in a guitar only band ( à la Animals as Leaders ) or every note played by thw bass player will almost completely erase our MASTODONTIC sound from the mix

My 2 Cents ...
BTW if we are talking only about Guitar Sounds Porn and playing in a bedroom for nobody ... then the Axe have his great tool to achieve that sound (y)
 
I realize there's a lot of post processing going on here ... I'm not dumb enough to believe they sell their products sounding like this. :p

Seems I'm using the wrong amps and wrong IRs then, that'd explain it! Back to experimenting. Another thing worth mentioning is that the "solo" tone seems a lot less processed, "tight" and even "good" for that matter.

As for the guys who don't like the tone ... it's either taste or monitors! (Cause it sure as hell sounds nasaly through a laptop)
 
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I could be wrong, but doesn't sound like just V30's to me. V30 or V30-esque speaker mixed with Eminence Governor possibly. The Governors have this cybernetic chunk to them in the low mids. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkIiMvfpgJg

I sampled the Governor in my Mesa Standard 4x12 cab for the V3 Mix Libraries being released next Monday at noon eastern time. This clip you posted sounds too cutting and smooth in the upper mids to just be the Governor alone, which is why I think it has V30 mixed in with it. You'll be able to try that next week and will probably get you much closer than with any other market options.
 
ownhammer said:
I could be wrong, but doesn't sound like just V30's to me. V30 or V30-esque speaker mixed with Eminence Governor possibly. The Governors have this cybernetic chunk to them in the low mids. For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkIiMvfpgJg

I sampled the Governor in my Mesa Standard 4x12 cab for the V3 Mix Libraries being released next Monday at noon eastern time. This clip you posted sounds too cutting and smooth in the upper mids to just be the Governor alone, which is why I think it has V30 mixed in with it. You'll be able to try that next week and will probably get you much closer than with any other market options.
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Wow! Music to my ears (no pun intended :p)

I had a sneaky suspicion there was something more than V30s going on here and since that's all I've bought from you I couldn't quite get there ... didn't want to seem like I was bashing though!

Do you think the pickups used here is a massive deal? I'm using EMG 808 actives while this video shows (AFAIK) passives which are going to have that signature Misha from Periphery mid boost.
 
Personally I doubt your issue has much to do with the IR. It's more about how that song was mixed. Bass tone is awesome and taking control of the low end so guitars don't basically matter much down there. You can even tone match that tone from that short clip they presented to show you how bright that sound actually is. If you have the ear for it try and separate bass and guitar in that mix and you'll kind of realize that you're not hearing much else than what's between 500hz forward.

I agree with Kevin that it doesn't sound like V30s. Something ice picky in that presence area.

So... a tubescreamer into 5150 is the way those guys do it right? I must admit the way the chuggs sound is awesome although the genre is not for me. :)
 
Clark Kent said:
Personally I doubt your issue has much to do with the IR. It's more about how that song was mixed. Bass tone is awesome and taking control of the low end so guitars don't basically matter much down there. You can even tone match that tone from that short clip they presented to show you how bright that sound actually is. If you have the ear for it try and separate bass and guitar in that mix and you'll kind of realize that you're not hearing much else than what's between 500hz forward.

I agree with Kevin that it doesn't sound like V30s. Something ice picky in that presence area.

So... a tubescreamer into 5150 is the way those guys do it right? I must admit the way the chuggs sound is awesome although the genre is not for me. :)
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Me and my band mates call it the "chainsaw" tone haha. I've been trying to get that sound since day 1 with the Axe FX, granted I've still a long way to go with mastering the beast.
 
Governor has a massive chunky bottom end and some of the ice picky thing on top, opposite to the V30 which is a mid forward speaker with neither of those (well, the good ones anyway, the bad ones not so much), hence why I think it's a mix of those two. :)

And no worries Alex, didn't catch any negativity/bashing in the absolute least. Sound is objective, "tone" is subjective, and it's all fun. :encouragement:
 
Clark Kent said:
Personally I doubt your issue has much to do with the IR. It's more about how that song was mixed. Bass tone is awesome and taking control of the low end so guitars don't basically matter much down there. You can even tone match that tone from that short clip they presented to show you how bright that sound actually is. If you have the ear for it try and separate bass and guitar in that mix and you'll kind of realize that you're not hearing much else than what's between 500hz forward.

I agree with Kevin that it doesn't sound like V30s. Something ice picky in that presence area.

So... a tubescreamer into 5150 is the way those guys do it right? I must admit the way the chuggs sound is awesome although the genre is not for me. :)
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I must be getting better at this because I hear the same thing. The bass in this mix is just perfect and carries a lot of the 'weight' to the tone to my ears.

The other thing is that we're talking about dual guitars....that's instant double tracking which is important, but more important than that is the insane tightness of their playing. I don't gravitate to this specific genre, but everything that I have heard these two guys do is just epically fantastic because it's not only complex and intense, but musical and the most overlooked part of good tone is great musicianship and phrasing.

But like Clark said what I hear is a pretty thin or bright sound that sits perfectly in the mix. You won't nail that same vibe without the rest of the track.
 
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