They All Sound the Same Part Deux

FractalAudio said:
I set the controls the same as the amp
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I believed it was not a good idea to do that because of the component thing 🤔

So if I understand, all the amps in the axe got the basic control accurate ? Except the presence in some if I remember . What a mess .

Since I talk to you, is it possible to add the real fader course of the mark / JP2c in the eq list ?
It can be very cool to match them even more .
 
This one seems pretty obvious (famous last words):

1. Amp
2. Axe FX
3. Other "modeler"
4. Other "modeler"
5. Other "modeler"
 
My name is mud said:
I believed it was not a good idea to do that because of the component thing 🤔

So if I understand, all the amps in the axe got the basic control accurate ? Except the presence in some if I remember . What a mess .
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He himself says that this will cause differences as different companies will model different examples of the same amp. I think what he's trying to highlight here is that the other modelers don't behave in an authentic way to the real amp when you set them all at the same settings. While component variance would have some effect, it would not be as big as these clips show. The previous clip with the Deluxe Reverb to me sounded like something that could be compensated with 1-2 step tweaks to the EQ.

In this comparison some of the modelers have a significantly cleaner sound by comparison, like a lot of the preamp or poweramp distortion goes away as the guitar volume is rolled back.

If you were to take the real amp as a reference tone and just started tweaking the other units to that, you would probably get the same sound or close to it, but it would require settings that significantly deviate from the real amp. Maybe it involves e.g. running modeler X with a significantly higher gain setting etc. End result may be the same but the accuracy to the real amp is worse.

As an example, when I had the Strymon Iridium I tried how it would sound through my FM3 with the FM3 providing the cab simulation so I could compare between amp models from each unit. I found I could dial the Iridium to sound very close, but there was still some difference in how the Fractal sounded. More complex is how I would describe it. But the Iridium sound was still very good so I would be happy to play with that and it's a fraction of the size and complexity of my FM3 so that's valuable. I'd have kept it if its headphone amp wasn't completely unsuitable for my high impedance headphones.

Obviously it's nice to have modelers that are very accurate and I applaud Cliff's desire to perfect his amp modeling, but considering most of us haven't tried even half of the Fractal amp selection as real amps, we don't know if the models are accurate or not but just have to take Cliff's word and clips for it. The rest of the time we can just enjoy that these devices deliver really great tones.
 
laxu said:
As an example, when I had the Strymon Iridium I tried how it would sound through my FM3 with the FM3 providing the cab simulation so I could compare between amp models from each unit. I found I could dial the Iridium to sound very close, but there was still some difference in how the Fractal sounded. More complex is how I would describe it. But the Iridium sound was still very good so I would be happy to play with that and it's a fraction of the size and complexity of my FM3 so that's valuable. I'd have kept it if its headphone amp wasn't completely unsuitable for my high impedance headphones.
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I have to agree regarding the Strymon Iridium and the Headphone. I had one when I was waiting for my FM3 and I generally liked the tone although it lacked the dynamics of the Ax8. But the headphone amp was terrible with soo much hiss that it went back within the 30 day time period
 
Aivoryuk said:
I have to agree regarding the Strymon Iridium and the Headphone. I had one when I was waiting for my FM3 and I generally liked the tone although it lacked the dynamics of the Ax8. But the headphone amp was terrible with soo much hiss that it went back within the 30 day time period
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I didn't have any low impedance headphones to test it on so don't know if it performs better with the intended impedance range. My 250 and 300 ohm headphones both got something weird going on in the midrange that is not there by running the Strymon through the FM3 (using it only as a headphone amp). I expected that maybe volume would be an issue but it was plenty loud, just unpleasant sounding somehow.

I can give it some slack since it's a pedal meant to be powered with 9V and in a compact enclosure so having a top tier headphone amp in its price and size is not happening. I do wish they would make a "Deluxe" version in the Volante form factor with more options.
 
laxu said:
I didn't have any low impedance headphones to test it on so don't know if it performs better with the intended impedance range. My 250 and 300 ohm headphones both got something weird going on in the midrange that is not there by running the Strymon through the FM3 (using it only as a headphone amp). I expected that maybe volume would be an issue but it was plenty loud, just unpleasant sounding somehow.

I can give it some slack since it's a pedal meant to be powered with 9V and in a compact enclosure so having a top tier headphone amp in its price and size is not happening. I do wish they would make a "Deluxe" version in the Volante form factor with more options.
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I had both lower and higher impedance headphones and the performance wasn't great for either - I'm surprised Strymon haven't followed it up with something more deluxe as there are similar products to the Strymon on the market now.
 
Aivoryuk said:
I had both lower and higher impedance headphones and the performance wasn't great for either - I'm surprised Strymon haven't followed it up with something more deluxe as there are similar products to the Strymon on the market now.
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Yeah Strymon generally doesn't seem to give a damn about what their competition is doing. Part of them retaining their prices, used or new, is that they don't release "V2" products but just ones that do something different.
 
FractalAudio said:
The Reveal:
1. Axe-Fx
2. Amp
3. Brand N
4. Brand A
5. Brand L
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I saw the results when you accidentally posted them yesterday, so I can't say I'm at all surprised. ;)

Given you added Brand L as a 4th modeller after the original post, it was never going to be picked as the real amp, or even the Axe-Fx, but wouldn't it have been really interesting to see what the results would have been if the Axe-Fx had been the late pick!
 
Listening for the first time after the reveal. To me the amp sounded slightly better than the Axe in this test (it went the other way in the previous one). The rest are....ummm.... 😝😖
 
FractalAudio said:
That's fine but it's not the point. The point is accuracy.

The movie Avatar probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful if they used sock puppets and stop-action animation.
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I understand what you're trying to convey with these posts, but this one here goes against one of your most used phrases:

Use your ears, not your eyes.

If the point is accuracy, then it will hold up to many different measurements, including eyes.
 
FractalAudio said:
That's fine but it's not the point. The point is accuracy.

The movie Avatar probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful if they used sock puppets and stop-action animation.
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Thanks, now I can't get the image of a James Cameron sock puppet blockbuster out of my head. :tearsofjoy:
 
If Brand A is Atomic, from personal experience the 5150 is not one of their best in the unit to put it nicely. There are some gems in their modeling though.
 
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