The scooped 5150 tone

schlagdog said:
I have also done that. Running even just the preamp and no power amp sims directly into the powersection of the 5150 isn't even close at all. It actually sounds much closer just running through the matrix and utilizing the power amp section of the axefx and a/bing the two trough the cab. Which seems odd to me but actually seems to work better. The presence seems to be way off from the actual amp. I usually run the presence about 6 on the real amp and end up running it about 1.5 on the axefx to match up. I was just asking a question about looking at it since I have compared it to 3 different 5150's now. If you say its exactly like yours thats what I have to go with and just tweak from there and get it as close as I can. Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

If you turn off the power amp simulation you must set the presence control to noon. If you don't it won't be close at all. FWIW I own two 5150s, a 6505+ and a 5150 III and they all measure and sound identical to the models.

Furthermore... here's a plot of the output response of my 5150 Block Letter vs. the Axe-Fx model:

5150.jpg


The amp is magenta, the Axe-Fx blue. Shows just how accurate MIMIC is.
 
I've done that with the presence with the power amp sims off. Looks pretty close to it the graph. Like I said there is nothing I can do about it if it matched up with yours and it doesn't match up with the 3 I compared. I'll just keep tweaking it up and see if I can get any closer to matching it up.
 
schlagdog said:
I've done that with the presence with the power amp sims off. Looks pretty close to it the graph. Like I said there is nothing I can do about it if it matched up with yours and it doesn't match up with the 3 I compared. I'll just keep tweaking it up and see if I can get any closer to matching it up.
Click to expand...

Can you post any of the clips from your comparison? Would be very interesting to hear the actual difference.
 
not bad
I downloaded this last night and it sounds pretty good (even through my fryette->2X12)
good Machine head sound although I'm not used to such a tight gate (BK holydivers on my 7 string)
sounded pretty good jamming to some Machine head

ALaz502 said:
Here, give this patch a shot. It's v10.12

As far as the cabs go, I used something different than Sneap because I just don't dig the Mesa and Marshal IRs in the Axe FX for high gain patches. They just don't do it for me for some reason. I use a blend of the old school 4x12 German Cab with SM58 for the bass and high end bite, then I throw in a 4x12 Citrus with U87 to fill out all the mids. There's a Multiband at the end which isn't set exactly like Sneap's but it does the same thing essentially by removing the boominess out of palm mutes. Also presence and depth are fairly high but that's how sneap sets them. The presence really brings the amp to life, and the depth just adds br00tz.
If you want, remove some gain and bring it down to 2.5 - 3.5 to add a little more focus if you'd like.

I made this patch with EMG 81 and a Dean Custom.
Funny you posted Rose of Sharyn for your example cause I use this patch frequently to jam that song. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/se0c6rf91bdr0sj/5150 SNEAP TONE.syx
Click to expand...
 
schlagdog said:
I have also done that. Running even just the preamp and no power amp sims directly into the powersection of the 5150 isn't even close at all. It actually sounds much closer just running through the matrix and utilizing the power amp section of the axefx and a/bing the two trough the cab. Which seems odd to me but actually seems to work better. The presence seems to be way off from the actual amp. I usually run the presence about 6 on the real amp and end up running it about 1.5 on the axefx to match up. I was just asking a question about looking at it since I have compared it to 3 different 5150's now. If you say its exactly like yours thats what I have to go with and just tweak from there and get it as close as I can. Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

Hi Schlag, in my findings the presence and depth controls have been extremely close with the real thing. It was me who did that video back in 2011 actually. I'm planning to do some more tests this week for here and youtube, will see what happens.


P.S

If you switch off power amp modelling and set your prescence to noon, should you leave depth at zero or also turn to noon?
 
Artean said:
Can you post any of the clips from your comparison? Would be very interesting to hear the actual difference.
Click to expand...

No problem. I did that before and after I didn't everyone who asked disappeared and I never got 1 response. I can easily get one up in a couple hours when I get home and throw in a guitar di and reamp something.
 
I love the 5150 models but while were on the subject, has anyone had any trouble on FW 10.12 with the bright switch of the block model? Everytime i turn it off everything breaks up like i just turned on a bit crusher.

I'm gonna mess around with some of these suggested settings later. For that KSE sound from the 5150 vs. Axe comparison vid i've had better luck with the splawn models. Nitrous and gear 3 can get these tones with relatively little tweaking. Frozensun IR's also helped.
 
Thanks Cliff!

Also one other thing I never figured out about the 5150 modelling. Does anyone know whether the bright and saturation be left on for authenticism or not?

My ears tell me yes although I always used to switch saturation off in previous firmwares, but my mind tells me no as saturation switch is the arredondo mod.


Edit: Did a bit of digging and Cliff found old 5150s have a bright cap and new ones don't! Pretty weird. I figure the bright cap value is accurate to the 5150's bright cap? C19 I think it was.

Most seem to hate it.
 
Last edited:


Just recorded this quick. Everything is at 5 on the 5150 and the Axefx except the gain is is 3 just using the axefx as a preamp. Just have a mesa oversized cab with a 57 on it. I just used some OLA stems to record stuff and was good to go. There is a difference in the gain and overall lowend and saturation just set to the same thing. None sounds bad at all and if I would have tweaked it up I'm sure raising up the gain and adding a little more bass could have closed the gap pretty well but I just set everything the same on both to compare. I recorded a little at the end with the AXEFX/MATRIX setup I always use that has my patch I made that I thought sounded most like my 5150 through a cab. Its got the presence down to 1 and the depth on 9 mid is 2.75 and gain on 2 and a tube screamer in front. So it took alot more extras to get it going with the poweramp sims on. Actually through the cab it sounds better through the matrix than the actual 5150 power section and using the axefx power amp sim on. The mid treb bass gain is actually pretty close to how i set the real amp with a screamer but the 5150 gain is on 2. The presence is way off because i usually set it on 6 and the amp and have it on 1 on the axefx. I did an IR of the mesa cab and did a direct recording that I turned the motor drive up to 5 and pulled of the high end in the cab block after that. All of everything sounds good to me and not one of the tones is bad other than they would need to be tweaked for recording because this is a live patch pretty much. Just a comparison of the axefx for the 5150 to give a couple differences. Other than the presence, the power amp section of the axefx does a pretty super amazing job and I think sounds better than turning it off and going right into the 5150 head.
 
Thanks schlagdog for taking time and doing the clips! I will take a listen through my studio monitors as soon as there is time.
 
jsl2h said:
I love the 5150 models but while were on the subject, has anyone had any trouble on FW 10.12 with the bright switch of the block model? Everytime i turn it off everything breaks up like i just turned on a bit crusher.

I'm gonna mess around with some of these suggested settings later. For that KSE sound from the 5150 vs. Axe comparison vid i've had better luck with the splawn models. Nitrous and gear 3 can get these tones with relatively little tweaking. Frozensun IR's also helped.
Click to expand...

If you're using Axe Edit, thats the problem.
 
ALaz502 said:
If you're using Axe Edit, thats the problem.
Click to expand...

That seems to be a glitch with the bright switch. I don't use Axefx for anything and use the front panel and has the same problem but it only happens when you are playing and engage the bright switch. All crazy sounding but stops as soon as you turn it off and on when not playing.
 
schlagdog said:


Just recorded this quick. Everything is at 5 on the 5150 and the Axefx except the gain is is 3 just using the axefx as a preamp. Just have a mesa oversized cab with a 57 on it. I just used some OLA stems to record stuff and was good to go. There is a difference in the gain and overall lowend and saturation just set to the same thing. None sounds bad at all and if I would have tweaked it up I'm sure raising up the gain and adding a little more bass could have closed the gap pretty well but I just set everything the same on both to compare. I recorded a little at the end with the AXEFX/MATRIX setup I always use that has my patch I made that I thought sounded most like my 5150 through a cab. Its got the presence down to 1 and the depth on 9 mid is 2.75 and gain on 2 and a tube screamer in front. So it took alot more extras to get it going with the poweramp sims on. Actually through the cab it sounds better through the matrix than the actual 5150 power section and using the axefx power amp sim on. The mid treb bass gain is actually pretty close to how i set the real amp with a screamer but the 5150 gain is on 2. The presence is way off because i usually set it on 6 and the amp and have it on 1 on the axefx. I did an IR of the mesa cab and did a direct recording that I turned the motor drive up to 5 and pulled of the high end in the cab block after that. All of everything sounds good to me and not one of the tones is bad other than they would need to be tweaked for recording because this is a live patch pretty much. Just a comparison of the axefx for the 5150 to give a couple differences. Other than the presence, the power amp section of the axefx does a pretty super amazing job and I think sounds better than turning it off and going right into the 5150 head.
Click to expand...


Great comparison! The Axe FX sounds a bit less organic in regards to pick attack and low end response in that demo. I think the tone of your patch through the matrix+cab sounded really great though. Your patch through the IR sounded great too
 
FWIW...a buddy of mine played with MH quite while back. At least one of the guitarists played the 5150 on the crunch channel..set to a heavy crunch and then drove it to saturation with a Line 6 drive pedal modeler. I don't remember what sim they used...I think it was the TS9, but could be wrong. IIRC they had a JCM800 in stereo with the 5150. My friend got a very similar tone with similar gear.
 
ALaz502 said:
You're wrong. The preamp simulation is spot on. IR selection is so crucial to get "that" sound man.

This is from 2011:
Click to expand...


The Axe tone there had just a little less depth, I think. Either way, kinda gross.

That schlagdog one is even worse. Ewwww. And less heavy, too.
 
rsf1977 said:
Actually, I don't think you can setup the MBC the way sneap does because you can't set the frequencies to the exact area he uses
Click to expand...
I recall Andy saying that this setting was for a specific song only and that there were no point to use it exactly as it is with any hi gain tone. As a starting point, yes, but no more. I find it really easy to tweak the MBC to tame the palm mute boominess exactly as I want
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom