The scooped 5150 tone

A

Artean

Inspired
Cheers!

I've been struggeling for a while (yeah, a pretty long while actually) to get that scooped 5150 metal tone we often attribute to a certain Mr Sneap and bands like Arch Enemy, Machine Head (The Blackening album) etc. It's not that hard getting in the general area, but achieving that final bit to a truly album worthy tone has proven quite more difficult. Most often I end up either too mid heavy and boxy or to thin. I'm pretty sure my own tweaking skills are to blame but, still, not only them.

I'm pretty confident that the current modelling of the 5150 range (6160 Block, 6160 II, 5150 3 and Fractal 6160) are, more or less, as good as they gets. So, it mostly comes down to the important choice of cab ir's. There are a few which I feel is in the right territory - e.g. Guitarhacks "Thisone" - but most have, to my ears, way too much low end and low mid content and lacks the right scoop-age... And I feel that is certainly true for most of the factory ones.

For those of you aiming for a similar sound, what are your tips&tricks and what cab choices do you have? Do you have any clips showcasing how well you have succeeded? ;)
Yeah, there's always the (endless) option of a post EQ but I'm trying to avoid that as long as possible.

I'm playing with a EMG 81 equipped Esp Eclipse and a Burstbucker equipped Explorer.
 
You could try using a MBC to clean up the bottom a bit if used subtly, but ultimately for me some EQing of guitars during mixing is pretty much inevitable.
 
Andrew Male said:
You could try using a MBC to clean up the bottom a bit if used subtly, but ultimately for me some EQing of guitars during mixing is pretty much inevitable.
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Yes, EQ:ing might be inevitable although I hoped for a sikrit ir that would take me there. ;)

And it makes me wonder how much post EQ there are on those productions as well as how close you can actually get directly on tape with guitar, amp, cab and mic.
 
with the 5150 models I always turn up the depth and presence pretty high.
Say Depth 6 or maybe even higher and presence on like 5 or 6.
Try this!
 
kmanick said:
from the Nevermore sessions I know Sneap has used a Marshall cab with GT-75's in it.
Try that cab (there are several variations in the Axe II) and see if it helps any.
I actually took the setings off of this youtube vid(the actual 5150 settings) and got very close to this sound on my rig
Peavey 5150 Vs Axe Fx II 6505 Model - YouTube
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Yeah, that's a good tone. Did he capture an ir? Anyhow, I will have to check out some Marshall ir's - both 1960A and 1960B. It feels like I've been staring myself blind on mesa lately.
 
Guitarjon said:
with the 5150 models I always turn up the depth and presence pretty high.
Say Depth 6 or maybe even higher and presence on like 5 or 6.
Try this!
Click to expand...

Yeah, my starting-point is what I reccon the typical Andy Sneap territory (and how I use my real 5150 as well):

Pregain 3-4
Low 5-6
Mid 2.5
High 4-5
Pre 5-7
Res 5-7
Postgain 2-3

It usually takes me pretty close, but I feel that that last bit can't be achieved without the right ir (or some heavy handed post EQing).

So, when is the Metal Producers Package IRs coming?
 
I think the IRs are most important in achieving the correct tonality. It's a good thing the best ones for this particular sound are free!
You need to download the Kalthallen IR pack and the God's Cab IR pack and blend them inside the stereo cab block.
Kalthallens are a bit more balanced and you can find a nice starting point from one of the V30 SM57 captures if you start with something relatively bright.
Then you need to pick an impulse from the GG package - something captured with a relatively high presence and perhaps a SM57 or MD421 - and blend it with the Kalthallen cab. God's Cab impulses are very scooped, bright and low-heavy and with the right blending should really work with the Kalthallens to create the scooped metal sound you're looking for!
 
Schlagdog - I'm damn surprised you haven't sold your Axe-II with how much you gripe about it.

Yeah - cab is really the most important part of the sound. Personally, I am liking the OwnHammer Mesa V32 UM SM57 1. You need some post-cab EQ action, but I find I get pretty close.
 
Im gonna post a patch for you tonight when i get home. I have an awesome one I've worked on since I've owned the axe. I jam Andy Sneap albums all the time and this patch blends in perfectly as if it was part of the album.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
Schlagdog - I'm damn surprised you haven't sold your Axe-II with how much you gripe about it.

Yeah - cab is really the most important part of the sound. Personally, I am liking the OwnHammer Mesa V32 UM SM57 1. You need some post-cab EQ action, but I find I get pretty close.
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I only use it for quick recording now. I'd love to be in love with it but when you have heads to compare it to the only plus is convenience. I love a lot of the tones but it just blows when you favorite amp doesn't really cut it in the unit. I just did some recording for a band and we tried the Axefx and both guitar players tweaked forever and ended up on the real 5150 to record.
Also, that OWNHAMMER cab is the same one I always go to or the UM SM57 2. Andy loves Marshall cabs with the 75's.
 
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I guess, man. I'm more than happy with the tones I get from the 5150, but I just like the FAS Modern II more. The amp that always seems to elude me is the VH4. Just can't get right with that one. But then I just go looking for something else rather than obsess over the fact that I just won't sound quite like Adam Jones (HA!).

Oh, and the best cab combo I've found for my high gain applications is the aforementioned Mesa and the new Checkerboard Chinese V30 combined either T1 or T2 - or the English V30 - you're choice. That's some good stuff right there.
 
ALaz502 said:
Im gonna post a patch for you tonight when i get home. I have an awesome one I've worked on since I've owned the axe. I jam Andy Sneap albums all the time and this patch blends in perfectly as if it was part of the album.
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Appreciated.
 
schlagdog said:
The 5150 Block in the Axefx doesn't match up well at all with the actual 5150. I have one and they aren't even close to sounding the same. Which blows because its my favorite amp the AXEFX really disappoints in the Peavey category. Here is a link to everything you ever need to know about Andy Sneep tone.

GOLDEN TIPS - Andy Sneap reveals some of his Techniques
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You're wrong. The preamp simulation is spot on. IR selection is so crucial to get "that" sound man.

This is from 2011:
 
No doubt does the model match up very well against that particular head. It seems though that there can be quite a difference between different 5150s. I would say that the one in the clip is much more dry sounding compared to my own, which is clearly more wet and saturated. But, as been stated several times, cab choices and mic position (and even mic pre to some degree) all have a pronounced coloring to the final tone. If that was not the case, it would be all too easy... ;)
 
you're never going to get a single, stand alone guitar tone to sound like a guitar track(s) that have been layered, mixed, eq'd, mastered, etc.

too many guys spend way too much time trying to get close to some "idealized" tone that isn't real world. just listen to stems from any recording....
 
jlynnb1 said:
you're never going to get a single, stand alone guitar tone to sound like a guitar track(s) that have been layered, mixed, eq'd, mastered, etc.

too many guys spend way too much time trying to get close to some "idealized" tone that isn't real world. just listen to stems from any recording....
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Andy Sneap is actually well known for being a minimalist in the guitar tracking/mixing department. Heck, in most cases he just does two rhythm guitars panned hard left and right. The one area he spends a lot of time is micing the amp meticulously.

As far as post processing goes, he usually does hi-pass/low-pass, some light EQ(if needed), and a single band of MBC if the guitar is too boomy on palm mutes. All of these are easily achievable on the Axe FX.
 
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