The scooped 5150 tone

[barhrecords]

Andy Sneap is actually well known for being a minimalist in the guitar tracking/mixing department. Heck, in most cases he just does two rhythm guitars panned hard left and right. The one area he spends a lot of time is micing the amp meticulously.

As far as post processing goes, he usually does hi-pass/low-pass, some light EQ(if needed), and a single band of MBC if the guitar is too boomy on palm mutes. All of these are easily achievable on the Axe FX.

This is true of so many great records.

80% artist / song / performance + 15% tracking / recording / recording space + 5% mixing and mastering

 

[rsf1977]

Actually, I don't think you can setup the MBC the way sneap does because you can't set the frequencies to the exact area he uses. Unless the MBC has been changed recently I could be wrong.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...2907714-mixing-heavy-distortion-guitar-c4.gif

 

[jlynnb1]

Andy Sneap is actually well known for being a minimalist in the guitar tracking/mixing department. Heck, in most cases he just does two rhythm guitars panned hard left and right. The one area he spends a lot of time is micing the amp meticulously.

As far as post processing goes, he usually does hi-pass/low-pass, some light EQ(if needed), and a single band of MBC if the guitar is too boomy on palm mutes. All of these are easily achievable on the Axe FX.

it still sits in a mix, though....which drastically affects the perceived tone...

 

[LKnight4949]

it still sits in a mix, though....which drastically affects the perceived tone...

Which is why I like to compare the tone I have with a part of a song with only guitars. Usually abundant in Andy Sneap productions.

 

[jlynnb1]

This is true of so many great records.

80% artist / song / performance + 15% tracking / recording / recording space + 5% mixing and mastering

i think the 5% mixing/mastering is a gross underestimate.

 

[jlynnb1]

This is true of so many great records.

80% artist / song / performance + 15% tracking / recording / recording space + 5% mixing and mastering

i think the 5% mixing/mastering is a gross underestimate.

 

[schlagdog]

You're wrong. The preamp simulation is spot on. IR selection is so crucial to get "that" sound man.

This is from 2011:

That was neat in 2011 but the preamp section ran into to power amp section of the 5150 now isn't even close. I have one sitting 3 feet away from me and I have tried every single scenario and it doesn't match up. The preamp into the power amp section actually sound worse than running the Axefx/matrix setup I have also. The preamp alone doesn't sound good at all straight into the 5150 power section. It's about as dull as you can get and it needs the power amp modeling. There isn't anything to do about it. Cliff says it sounds like his and that's the end of the discussion as far as it comes the the model. There isn't anything to be done about it and just make the most of it. I have a 5150 sitting right next to me running through a Mesa 4x12 and a Axefx/matrix setup running through the same cab and the difference is night and day. Like I said, that's how is is and the model isn't going to change so all I can do is tweak it as best I can and call it good.

 

[jlynnb1]

That was neat in 2011 but the preamp section ran into to power amp section of the 5150 now isn't even close. I have one sitting 3 feet away from me and I have tried every single scenario and it doesn't match up. The preamp into the power amp section actually sound worse than running the Axefx/matrix setup I have also. The preamp alone doesn't sound good at all straight into the 5150 power section. It's about as dull as you can get and it needs the power amp modeling. There isn't anything to do about it. Cliff says it sounds like his and that's the end of the discussion as far as it comes the the model. There isn't anything to be done about it and just make the most of it. I have a 5150 sitting right next to me running through a Mesa 4x12 and a Axefx/matrix setup running through the same cab and the difference is night and day. Like I said, that's how is is and the model isn't going to change so all I can do is tweak it as best I can and call it good.

post your preset?

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

Well Mr. Dog... if it's that damn important, have you talked to Cliff about your special amp and how it would behoove the community to have it modeled - you know... for posterity's sake?

 

[schlagdog]

Well Mr. Dog... if it's that damn important, have you talked to Cliff about your special amp and how it would behoove the community to have it modeled - you know... for posterity's sake?

I actually already did that about a month ago. I sent him an email asking if he could revisit the 5150 Block to make sure it was accurate. Since within the last year he went in and redid all the Mesa Recto models because one day he played through a cab and the amps didn't match up at all with the axefx and that took a few years to notice. You can find his post someplace on the board about it. Before I sent a message I wanted to make sure I didn't have some magical sounding amp. So I took it to my friends who has a Block and a Sig 5150 and a/b'd them. The only difference was in the lowend basically due to the differences in tube manufactures. Cliff got back to me and said it sounds just like his and that is all I can do. I only wanted the AXEFX to be the best it could be and be scary accurate. I'd love to sell my stack of heads sitting here and have some room to move around. Like I said, I get tons of awesome tones from the axefx. The SRV blues tones I get out of it are worth the price of the entire thing. Since I own the exact 5150 amp it is supposed to model and its my favorite amp in the world I would love to turn on the AXEFX and go "THERE IT IS" and sell the head.

 

[Artean]

it still sits in a mix, though....which drastically affects the perceived tone...

That's why you don't try to reference your single guitar to a full mix. Right?

 

[greyanaroth]

Andy Sneap has been very open about his production techniques. Some things he's done in the past with great results are definitely quad tracking (he's sticking to just dual tracking now), using different amps for left and right, the mbc trick for woofy mutes, and meticulous eq. Also he's got a golden pair of ears.

What he doesnt mention is that he pushes his guitar players like crazy, always uses EMG pickups for rhythms and an od808 and not a ts.

 

[barhrecords]

i think the 5% mixing/mastering is a gross underestimate.

I was talking about the improvement in quality of the record, a hit record, not the time involved.

 

[LKnight4949]

Here, give this patch a shot. It's v10.12

As far as the cabs go, I used something different than Sneap because I just don't dig the Mesa and Marshal IRs in the Axe FX for high gain patches. They just don't do it for me for some reason. I use a blend of the old school 4x12 German Cab with SM58 for the bass and high end bite, then I throw in a 4x12 Citrus with U87 to fill out all the mids. There's a Multiband at the end which isn't set exactly like Sneap's but it does the same thing essentially by removing the boominess out of palm mutes. Also presence and depth are fairly high but that's how sneap sets them. The presence really brings the amp to life, and the depth just adds br00tz.
If you want, remove some gain and bring it down to 2.5 - 3.5 to add a little more focus if you'd like.

I made this patch with EMG 81 and a Dean Custom.
Funny you posted Rose of Sharyn for your example cause I use this patch frequently to jam that song.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/se0c6rf91bdr0sj/5150 SNEAP TONE.syx

 

[LKnight4949]

I actually already did that about a month ago. I sent him an email asking if he could revisit the 5150 Block to make sure it was accurate. Since within the last year he went in and redid all the Mesa Recto models because one day he played through a cab and the amps didn't match up at all with the axefx and that took a few years to notice. You can find his post someplace on the board about it. Before I sent a message I wanted to make sure I didn't have some magical sounding amp. So I took it to my friends who has a Block and a Sig 5150 and a/b'd them. The only difference was in the lowend basically due to the differences in tube manufactures. Cliff got back to me and said it sounds just like his and that is all I can do. I only wanted the AXEFX to be the best it could be and be scary accurate. I'd love to sell my stack of heads sitting here and have some room to move around. Like I said, I get tons of awesome tones from the axefx. The SRV blues tones I get out of it are worth the price of the entire thing. Since I own the exact 5150 amp it is supposed to model and its my favorite amp in the world I would love to turn on the AXEFX and go "THERE IT IS" and sell the head.

Did you try the 5153 model? I'm assuming you did. I had better luck getting the signature 5150 sound with that thing than the 6160 personally.

 

[Artean]

Here, give this patch a shot. It's v10.12

As far as the cabs go, I used something different than Sneap because I just don't dig the Mesa and Marshal IRs in the Axe FX for high gain patches. They just don't do it for me for some reason. I use a blend of the old school 4x12 German Cab with SM58 for the bass and high end bite, then I throw in a 4x12 Citrus with U87 to fill out all the mids. There's a Multiband at the end which isn't set exactly like Sneap's but it does the same thing essentially by removing the boominess out of palm mutes. Also presence and depth are fairly high but that's how sneap sets them. The presence really brings the amp to life, and the depth just adds br00tz.
If you want, remove some gain and bring it down to 2.5 - 3.5 to add a little more focus if you'd like.

I made this patch with EMG 81 and a Dean Custom.
Funny you posted Rose of Sharyn for your example cause I use this patch frequently to jam that song.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/se0c6rf91bdr0sj/5150 SNEAP TONE.syx

Thanks! I will try the patch as soon as I'm back home.

Yeah, I've recently been using Jeff's RoS DI since there are so many clips to reference. Bored as hell on the riff though!

 

[wcfieldskx]

Here, give this patch a shot. It's v10.12

As far as the cabs go, I used something different than Sneap because I just don't dig the Mesa and Marshal IRs in the Axe FX for high gain patches. They just don't do it for me for some reason. I use a blend of the old school 4x12 German Cab with SM58 for the bass and high end bite, then I throw in a 4x12 Citrus with U87 to fill out all the mids. There's a Multiband at the end which isn't set exactly like Sneap's but it does the same thing essentially by removing the boominess out of palm mutes. Also presence and depth are fairly high but that's how sneap sets them. The presence really brings the amp to life, and the depth just adds br00tz.
If you want, remove some gain and bring it down to 2.5 - 3.5 to add a little more focus if you'd like.

I made this patch with EMG 81 and a Dean Custom.
Funny you posted Rose of Sharyn for your example cause I use this patch frequently to jam that song.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/se0c6rf91bdr0sj/5150%20SNEAP%20TONE.syx

Thanks. Will it sound the same on 11b?

 

[LKnight4949]

Thanks. Will it sound the same on 11b?

Tried it with 11b and I thought it sounded considerably better.

 

[FractalAudio]

I actually already did that about a month ago. I sent him an email asking if he could revisit the 5150 Block to make sure it was accurate. Since within the last year he went in and redid all the Mesa Recto models because one day he played through a cab and the amps didn't match up at all with the axefx and that took a few years to notice. You can find his post someplace on the board about it. Before I sent a message I wanted to make sure I didn't have some magical sounding amp. So I took it to my friends who has a Block and a Sig 5150 and a/b'd them. The only difference was in the lowend basically due to the differences in tube manufactures. Cliff got back to me and said it sounds just like his and that is all I can do. I only wanted the AXEFX to be the best it could be and be scary accurate. I'd love to sell my stack of heads sitting here and have some room to move around. Like I said, I get tons of awesome tones from the axefx. The SRV blues tones I get out of it are worth the price of the entire thing. Since I own the exact 5150 amp it is supposed to model and its my favorite amp in the world I would love to turn on the AXEFX and go "THERE IT IS" and sell the head.

Perhaps the Matrix is the issue. You are comparing apples and bananas. I have compared apples-to-apples using a mic on the cabinet vs. the Axe-Fx model into an IR of the cabinet thereby removing any other variables. It measures and sounds identical.

 

[schlagdog]

Perhaps the Matrix is the issue. You are comparing apples and bananas. I have compared apples-to-apples using a mic on the cabinet vs. the Axe-Fx model into an IR of the cabinet thereby removing any other variables. It measures and sounds identical.

I have also done that. Running even just the preamp and no power amp sims directly into the powersection of the 5150 isn't even close at all. It actually sounds much closer just running through the matrix and utilizing the power amp section of the axefx and a/bing the two trough the cab. Which seems odd to me but actually seems to work better. The presence seems to be way off from the actual amp. I usually run the presence about 6 on the real amp and end up running it about 1.5 on the axefx to match up. I was just asking a question about looking at it since I have compared it to 3 different 5150's now. If you say its exactly like yours thats what I have to go with and just tweak from there and get it as close as I can. Thanks for the input.