The perfect use for profiling?

I'm not really arguing against the possibility that you can get good tones out of a Kemper, I'm saying I don't like the method used to acquire them.
 
What difference does the method make? Isn't it all about the tone coming out of your speakers, and the feel of it all. Also how it reacts to the guitars vol knob etc.....

I could care less what the method is as long as it's easy to dial in great tones and feels/reacts like an amp.

Like I said, because a few people whom I respect now own one and they say it has all these elements of a good tube amp, then I will remain open minded about it.
 
Though the AxeFX is a better fit for me (I'm a tinkerer and the AxeFX provides me with deep editing parameters for just about everything!) the KPA is making a very positive impression with damn near everyone who has an opportunity to play through one. I gather the user has a bit more control than the pre-release Kemper videos seem to cover (this is my impression from reading initial reviews from New users).

Clearly each platform has its strenghths and will appeal to different players for different reasons (method of / process for emulation, ease of use, feature set, deep editing capabilities, user interface, I/O options, audio resolution, form factor, etc). What works for one user is no better than what works for another. This is all subjective, personal preference, and provides no objective advantage to either platform.

Food for thought. :)
 
Legion said:
I'm not really arguing against the possibility that you can get good tones out of a Kemper, I'm saying I don't like the method used to acquire them.
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I have to agree here but then I also say if people want to give a shot to the kemper that's alright. The Axe FxII would be getting a profiling feature of it's own very soon.
Although speaking of tone personally,when you have something like an Axe FxII specially with the current firmware... There is no tone that you can't get out of this box of magic.
Kemper is good for guys that have a ton of boutique amps and have certain settings of their own that they just want to profile. They may want to profile one aspect of one amp for their lead sounds,one aspect of another amp for their rhythm sound,one aspect of one for distortion,one aspect of one for their clean channel on another amp. As for us the Axe FxII is amazing because we don't have that many boutique amps but Axe FxII gives us those within it due to it's amazing technology and organic replication of all those amps. Which to me is such a blessing thanks to Cliff and team. I think once the profiling feature is introduced in the Axe FxII,it will be the best of both worlds. All the guys with their classic tube collection can profile their own collection as well as keep the amazing simulations that the Axe FxII already has. I think it's just a lot more tonal options. But I say rather wait for Fractal to introduce it in the very near future.That way current Axe FxII owners would be getting the profiling feature and wouldn't have to spend extra bucks on a Kemper.
Anyhow to each his own I suppose.
 
willowdale said:
What difference does the method make?
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Method makes a big difference. With the Axe 2 I don't have to have any other amps to get good tones, with the Kemper I have to own, or have access to them. I mean, if you want to take "method doesn't matter" to it's logical extension, why not just buy all the different amps and effects you like?
 
Legion said:
But the thing that bothered me the most was that the speaker was part of the profiling process. Then you have to make sure you own or have access to the cab you want to pair the amp with, and on playback you have to use FRFR because there's no way to "turn off" cab simulations. You're also stuck with whatever microphones you have access to and you'd have to profile repeatedly for different mic placements.

The whole process isn't modular enough. I think it might have a little more promise if you profiled the amp without the cab and the profiler provided some kind of load to the amp while it read the output. Obviously this could be annoying with certain combo amps, but there's no flexibility the other way.
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you might want to inform yourself a little better...
 
Legion said:
Do you have anything other than rhetoric to counter what I've said?
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there is a dedicated monitor output for which you can switch the cab sim off. This could be used to send a signal to a power amp + cab on stage while sending the full signal stereo to the FOH.
also you can defeat the cab sim by pressing the 'Cabinet' button on the front, and of course you can change cab sims.
just because they're profiled in one setting means that they can't be separated - they can.
 
I stand corrected. I think I'm more impressed that it's able to distinguish the amp's contribution to the tone from the cabinet and mic than the fact that it profiles. I'd like to see an A/B test where they profile an amp/cab setup, then take the real amp and switch the cab and compare it to the profiled amp with the cab switched in software.
 
Hi Legion,
Don is right: I'm closely following the KPA evolution, and you can actually switch between different cabs or exclude them.And, with the thenths of profiles coming with the unit and the hundreds already around, you have just to choose.
IIRC, on the KPA forum someone has just offered like 50 4x12 profiles. People seem to be diggin them.

There'e tons of videos about the function you're investigating, just youtube for it X)

As for the tonestack, this is a most debated issue as well. Mr. Kemper stated they can start supplying original tonestacks to interchange if the users base demands it.
 
Why Would it "Bother " You? Why not look at the good qualities and not assume?

Legion said:
But the thing that bothered me the most was that the speaker was part of the profiling process. Then you have to make sure you own or have access to the cab you want to pair the amp with, and on playback you have to use FRFR because there's no way to "turn off" cab simulations. You're also stuck with whatever microphones you have access to and you'd have to profile repeatedly for different mic placements.
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Uh, what if you just took the direct out of the amp and ran it into the profiler instead of a mic and just eliminate the mic and cab from the profile? Could you not then add an IR and mic model from the AXE and not be "stuck" with one mic and one placement? Seems to me it would work if the profiled amp was in it's own block like a modeled amp is and the profiler could handle the higher frequencies that don't get filtered by a cab. Just a thought.

I know you were referring to the Kemper but I see no reason either unit couldn't be used just to profile the amp sans the cabinet and mic.
 
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Search4Tone said:
Uh, what if you just took the direct out of the amp and ran it into the profiler instead of a mic and just eliminate the mic and cab from the profile? Could you not then add an IR and mic model from the AXE and not be "stuck" with one mic and one placement? Seems to me it would work if the profiled amp was in it's own block like a modeled amp is and the profiler could handle the higher frequencies that don't get filtered by a cab. Just a thought.


That's how I've been profiling. I connect the amp's speaker out into a hot plate. The hot plate then goes to a 4x12, but I also take a direct out to the Kemper. Then I profile and have a raw amp sound. After profiling, I add a cabinet from the KPA (I already downloaded several versions of a Marshall 1960 cab). So far, it has worked great for me, although I'd love for Redwirez to convert their IRs to Kemper format.

Also, you don't have to profile every gain or tone setting. When I profiled my 1987 Plexi Reissue, I must have blown a tube so the profile was relatively clean. I then raised the gain on the profile and it sounded wicked. Tone controls are very responsive. Finally, you don't need to own or have access to boutique amps. Everyone who has a KPA is more than happy to share their profiles, especially if they have a unique amp.
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*sigh*

You know, when I started this thread it was to talk about what the addition of profiling could mean to me, an AxeFX II user. I didn't mention the KPA, don't really care about the KPA, and looked at it as a feature that could benefit me with *my* gear and the way I want to use it...

So, maybe stick to the topic of wishful thinking on future Axe capture of amp impulses (avoiding the dreaded 'P' word.) Pretending the KPA didn't exist, how would you like it to work in the Axe?

My .02,
TT
 
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Adinfinitum said:
Also, you don't have to profile every gain or tone setting. When I profiled my 1987 Plexi Reissue, I must have blown a tube so the profile was relatively clean. I then raised the gain on the profile and it sounded wicked. Tone controls are very responsive. Finally, you don't need to own or have access to boutique amps. Everyone who has a KPA is more than happy to share their profiles, especially if they have a unique amp.
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Didn't you just sell your Axe II ??... then I really don't quite understand your concern since this has nothing to do about that. No disrespect. I'm just saying...
 
Tommy Tequila said:
*sigh*

You know, when I started this thread it was to talk about what the addition of profiling could mean to me, an AxeFX II user. I didn't mention the KPA, don't really care about the KPA, and looked at it as a feature that could benefit me with *my* gear and the way I want to use it...

So, maybe stick to the topic of wishful thinking on future Axe capture of amp impulses (avoiding the dreaded 'P' word.) Pretending the KPA didn't exist, how would you like it to work in the Axe?

My .02,
TT
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Unfortunately the term "impulse" or "impulse response" simply isn't applicable here. Profiling is a lot more complicated. It's accurately capturing the transfer function of a non-linear system, a process that's light years beyond measuring the impulse response of a linear system (to my simple mind at least).

I'm blown away by the fact it can even be done, yet guys like Cliff seem to look at it as a routine process. I wish I were a DSP guru. But I think we're "stuck" with the word profiling and see no issue with that term. It would also be my guess that we will see other manufacturers soon releasing amp profilers.

Did you check out the Behringer PRF6000 amp profiler that lists for $299, one space rack mount, balanced outs, built in mic pre, 1024 user program locations, 24 bit 96kHz processing? Due for release in April I hear.




(kidding)

:D
 
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