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The new HBE...

erockomania

Experienced
So, I've always loved the HBE but has anybody else noticed the latest version is very noisy? I get mad feedback when the master is higher than about 5. I used to crank it without much worry. I really love the way the new one sounds but when I get it to where I like it, it's nearly unusable because of the noise/feedback. I've gone back and forth with other models and none are near this noisy. Has there just been a change to master volume?
 

RoshRoslin

Experienced
The Friedman is a master volume amp. Cranking the master that high on the real amp would tear the paint off the walls.

Lower the master and use preamp gain if you need more gain (I don't think you would). If you need more actual volume, use the level parameter, not the master volume
 

erockomania

Experienced
I've not had this issue before, and that's the point. I love the sound and feel of it with the master around 7. I used to be able to dime it without too much trouble.
 

Matt_B_77

Power User
I'll be blunt - I almost rolled back to FW 2.0 because of the changes to the HBE in 2.04.

Next time I won't be so quick to jump on new firmware before reading the release note. Sometimes the latest isn't the greatest. ;)
 

Spawn2031

Inspired
I'll be blunt - I almost rolled back to FW 2.0 because of the changes to the HBE in 2.04.

Next time I won't be so quick to jump on new firmware before reading the release note. Sometimes the latest isn't the greatest. ;)
Isn't there an option in 2.04 to select an older firmware's modeling both globally and per amp?
 

Matt_B_77

Power User
Isn't there an option in 2.04 to select an older firmware's modeling both globally and per amp?
Like I said I almost rolled back. :) The bass response in the new model seems tighter but the upper mids were lacking. I bought a couple of cab packs and found 3-4 cabs that are working great with the new version now.
 

jiggajewjay

Inspired
I haven't made the switch yet. i am still on Q2.01. Wondering what our fearless leader has to say about the changes in the HBE. i am a heavy HBE user and after reading this i am apprehensive about making the upgrade. Perhaps have 2 models? one for Mark Days and one for the original HBE that we have all come to love? Not at all a complaint. i always just make the upgrade and use my ears to make the model work for me. Just wondering why such a popular amp model would need an overhaul. i understand that this the Axe is all about realism and getting the amps to sound as real as possible. Didnt the old HBE sound like the amp is was modeled after? perhaps 2 HBE's is the solution....
 

Matt_B_77

Power User
To be clear, the HBE model changed in 2.03. Here are the release notes:

2.03
This version firmware allows switching between three firmware versions: Quantum
2.00, 2.01 and 2.02. In the Global menu the “Default Modeling Version” selects
which version of modeling to use when choosing a new amp model and when
recalling presets made with previous firmware versions.
Choices are “Latest”
“Q2.01” and “Q2.00”. In the Amp block the “Modeling Version” selects the
version to use which can be used to override the default value. Note that
changing the Modeling Version in the Amp block will load appropriate default
values for the Preamp Hardness, Preamp Bias and Harmonics parameters thereby
overriding any changes that may have been made to those parameters. In simple
terms: if you want the sound of 2.02 set the Modeling Version to Latest, for
2.01 use Q2.01 and for 2.00 use Q2.00. Note that changing the Default Modeling
Version in the Global menu does NOT change the modeling version the amp block is
using. It only selects which version the amp block will use when selecting a
new amp model or recalling old presets. Otherwise the version will remain
unchanged.
Re-matched Friedman BE and HBE amp models using a newer reference amp as the
original reference amp is an early model and has questionable QC.
Added Friedman BE/HBE V2 models based on a Friedman BE/HBE with the Voice switch
toggled left. The original models (based on the switch toggled right) have been
renamed Friedman BE/HBE V1.
Reduced popping when changing Amp block Preamp Bias.
Fixed popping when X/Y switching the Cabinet block and one state has a non-zero
Sat value for the mic preamp simulator.
Fixed Drive block “Plus Dist” type defaulting to wrong clipping type.


Take note of the text in bold - we can use the 2.0 version for the HBE but it doesn't sound the same to me which makes sense because the underlying model itself changed. Whichever firmware version you run it still uses the updated HBE model.
 

R.D.

Power User
Didn't the old HBE sound like the amp is was modeled after? perhaps 2 HBE's is the solution....
I believe that the "original" BE/HBE was directly modeled after one of Friedman's early designs. Mark Day's HBE is a later version after Dave had made some "updates/improvements" .... I think part of the reason Cliff did it was simply because he had ready access to Mark's amp ....
 

R.D.

Power User
Unless someone has mentioned it, the taper of the master volume is not the same as on the real amps. The taper in the Axe is much more gradual. In other words, 5 in the Axe might be 3 on the real deal.
Correct ! That is still the case ( AFAIK ) too ! And given that the BE/HBE can sound good with any number of Gain/Master combinations it could make a HUGE difference in crafting your tones.

I mean I typically set the amp like I would w/ the real thing ( meaning as much or more drive from the preamp and less from the power section ), but Rocco had a VH patch ( Unchained, I think ? ) that was almost the complete opposite .... The drive was very low and the master was dimed !
 

VegaBaby

Fractal Fanatic
I believe that the "original" BE/HBE was directly modeled after one of Friedman's early designs. Mark Day's HBE is a later version after Dave had made some "updates/improvements" .... I think part of the reason Cliff did it was simply because he had ready access to Mark's amp ....
^^ this
there's quite a difference in older BE/HBEs and later ones. even the newest sound slightly different yet again as Friedman updated a few things recently...
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I can put the old model back in as a new model. The old model is an original, hand-built "Marsha". It's MUCH darker than Mark's newer BE/HBE. In fact it's so dark and boomy I emailed Dave to make sure the amp was built correctly. Turns out the snubber cap is the wrong value. But even with the snubber cap corrected it's still very dark and boomy which made me question as to whether there are other components that are incorrect (the guy who built the amp smoked about a pound of pot a day). So we decided to redo the model based on Mark's amp which is the amp that was the demo model at Tone Merchants.
 

erockomania

Experienced
^^That would be awesome, although I do really like the character of the new amp. It's just that I can't seem to crank up the master volume like I could before without getting noise and feedback.
 

Matt_B_77

Power User
I've still got a ton of amp models to spend time with and over the weekend I bought CP 14 and 20 so I've got a ton of IRs to play with. To that end I'm fine with sticking with the new model of the HBE.
 
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